Guess about time I intro'd myself
- Thread starter jaskin
- Start date
Hahaha c'mon guys! Maybe I was a cow that got whipped badly in my past life? Hehehe anyway I'm currently in Singapore at the moment. Would love to meet up with you guys sometime soon.... Understand that there is a meetup this Sunday, unfortunately I'm going to HK for a short trip. Anyways there's always fridays that we could meetup and have a drink or two.
I'm staying in the west area, anyone bros out there with me?
I'm staying in the west area, anyone bros out there with me?
winnercafe
Well-Known Member
rex7_vtec said:
i stay in west also but seldom go to meet up
winnercafe
Well-Known Member
rodders said:
:verysad: ok lor
Re: Guess about time I intro'd myself
Hehehe as of now, my budget only allows me to play around with a N.A. Vtec... Not 2.0 but more like 1.8 with around 12k rpm redline. Target to beat all those Evos and WRXs on track. Looking at getting a DC2 or EK9. The last time I had the DC2, I did'nt get to do alot of things. Like roll cage, bare interior, dog gear boxes, etc...
Well IF the bonus at the end of this year is any good. Would be thinking of getting a WRX, hehe cause i've got a nice turbo sitting around somewhere waiting to be used :twisted:
Shaun said:
Hehehe as of now, my budget only allows me to play around with a N.A. Vtec... Not 2.0 but more like 1.8 with around 12k rpm redline. Target to beat all those Evos and WRXs on track. Looking at getting a DC2 or EK9. The last time I had the DC2, I did'nt get to do alot of things. Like roll cage, bare interior, dog gear boxes, etc...
Well IF the bonus at the end of this year is any good. Would be thinking of getting a WRX, hehe cause i've got a nice turbo sitting around somewhere waiting to be used :twisted:
Puny said:
Hehehe well I do kinda appreciate cars. For the first 2 cars, my dad was more like a VW enthusiast. Dunno why had 2 same cars though. He passed on the 2nd passat only after he got himself another car...
For me I'm more of a Jap car person, I'm absolutely OBSESSED with tracking! Unless I get a 1st prize TOTO I think a continental track car would be way way way out of my budget.
As for my current ride, we scraped the Passat and got back a decent amount which is why it would be worthwhile to get the current ride
rex7_vtec said:Puny said:
Hehehe well I do kinda appreciate cars. For the first 2 cars, my dad was more like a VW enthusiast. Dunno why had 2 same cars though. He passed on the 2nd passat only after he got himself another car...
For me I'm more of a Jap car person, I'm absolutely OBSESSED with tracking! Unless I get a 1st prize TOTO I think a continental track car would be way way way out of my budget.
As for my current ride, we scraped the Passat and got back a decent amount which is why it would be worthwhile to get the current ride
Hey Barry,
Cool cars you have driven man. So you wont be at sunday meetup and my taxi ride gotta be delayed again. haha.
Re: Guess about time I intro'd myself
Man that is impressive! I am not not sure that 12,000rpm is a good idea though. Piston speeds are a limit to the highest tuned race engines (car, bike, whatever) to around 25m/s for medium distance (200-500 miles) at highest NA tune state. The abuse an F1 or NASCAR engine takes is equated by many experts to match 24 hour endurance road course engine experiences that run at reduced piston speeds, reduced lift, lower average MEP (in some cases). Here are some numbers..
NASCAR engine, 83 mm stroke, 9000 rpm
24.9 m/s
4,000 G
F1 engine, 40 mm stroke, 19,000 rpm
25.3 m/s
9,800 G
3.5cc R/C racing engine, 16 mm stroke, 48,000 rpm
25.6 m/s
26,000 G
Assuming you are running a stock stroke B18C, your piston speeds are going to be around 34.8m/s and a B18A/B/Z will be worse at around 35.6m/s. You could take a B16 crank and put it in a B18C block and end up with about 1747cc but piston speeds would still be around 30m/s. B16 crank in a B20B block would end up around 2183cc with the same 30m/s piston speed. So it is safe to say that if you want a remotely reliable track engine you will have to reduce redline. There are short distance road course race engines (60 miles) that approach 28m/s and some drag engines that go to 35 - 36 m/s but the ones that break 30 need rebuilds every couple of passes.
Besides the issue of piston speed (which relates directly to friction, sonic choke, and inertial loads), there is also the one concerning valvetrain stability at those RPMs.
Also, who are you thinking of to build you this killer NA engine? Are you planning on getting a japanese crate engine? AFAIK, there is no crate engine company anywhere in the world that recommends or puts any kind of warranty on any sub-60K-SGD engine running 12,000rpm. A race engine of that state of tune is going to need tolerances to at least 0.0001".
What dog box do you plan to run? Don't those run at least 30K SGD for the box alone? Please let me know if you find a good cheap source for them. Sorry for all the questions, just that all this is really interesting. It is nice to meet someone like you especially from Singapore.
rex7_vtec said:
Man that is impressive! I am not not sure that 12,000rpm is a good idea though. Piston speeds are a limit to the highest tuned race engines (car, bike, whatever) to around 25m/s for medium distance (200-500 miles) at highest NA tune state. The abuse an F1 or NASCAR engine takes is equated by many experts to match 24 hour endurance road course engine experiences that run at reduced piston speeds, reduced lift, lower average MEP (in some cases). Here are some numbers..
NASCAR engine, 83 mm stroke, 9000 rpm
24.9 m/s
4,000 G
F1 engine, 40 mm stroke, 19,000 rpm
25.3 m/s
9,800 G
3.5cc R/C racing engine, 16 mm stroke, 48,000 rpm
25.6 m/s
26,000 G
Assuming you are running a stock stroke B18C, your piston speeds are going to be around 34.8m/s and a B18A/B/Z will be worse at around 35.6m/s. You could take a B16 crank and put it in a B18C block and end up with about 1747cc but piston speeds would still be around 30m/s. B16 crank in a B20B block would end up around 2183cc with the same 30m/s piston speed. So it is safe to say that if you want a remotely reliable track engine you will have to reduce redline. There are short distance road course race engines (60 miles) that approach 28m/s and some drag engines that go to 35 - 36 m/s but the ones that break 30 need rebuilds every couple of passes.
Besides the issue of piston speed (which relates directly to friction, sonic choke, and inertial loads), there is also the one concerning valvetrain stability at those RPMs.
Also, who are you thinking of to build you this killer NA engine? Are you planning on getting a japanese crate engine? AFAIK, there is no crate engine company anywhere in the world that recommends or puts any kind of warranty on any sub-60K-SGD engine running 12,000rpm. A race engine of that state of tune is going to need tolerances to at least 0.0001".
What dog box do you plan to run? Don't those run at least 30K SGD for the box alone? Please let me know if you find a good cheap source for them. Sorry for all the questions, just that all this is really interesting. It is nice to meet someone like you especially from Singapore.
SMYUEN said:rex7_vtec said:Puny said:
Hehehe well I do kinda appreciate cars. For the first 2 cars, my dad was more like a VW enthusiast. Dunno why had 2 same cars though. He passed on the 2nd passat only after he got himself another car...
For me I'm more of a Jap car person, I'm absolutely OBSESSED with tracking! Unless I get a 1st prize TOTO I think a continental track car would be way way way out of my budget.
As for my current ride, we scraped the Passat and got back a decent amount which is why it would be worthwhile to get the current ride
Hey Barry,
Cool cars you have driven man. So you wont be at sunday meetup and my taxi ride gotta be delayed again. haha.
Yea sorry dude, well we could always meetup on Fridays!
Hahaha sorry dude!!! Somehow I missed out on this topic!! But yea I dig what you said above... So its either a 1.8 or just a 1.6 with lotsa and lotsa revs!Shaun said:wah kenna ignored
In regards to building of the engine, I do have contact to source for a Spoon engine... As for the dog box, I got offered one with Mugen LSD for around $12000. Dun think dog boxes cost as much as $30k. Are you looking for 1? I might be able to get you some contacts =)
Regards
Barry
I took another look around and found some for 5-11K USD (9-19K SGD). Funny cos my mind summary recalls the 3 I've come across in past years all costing around 30K SGD. Thanks I will look for you if I need a dogbox.
What I am more sure about is that Spoon has motors that make peak power right around 25m/s and are shifted somewhere around the 26m/s mark. In one of the Hot Version tests they had that same type of engine shifting at the 30m/s mark for fun, and it blew up during the test. Kind of reinforces the concept of a 25/26 m/s reliability barrier.
When are you thinking about building this engine? How much do you expect to spend on the engine alone? Would you be interested in a DART based B16 with the best bits, and an induction system optimized from the best the market as a whole has to offer in terms of cams? Selection narrowing by spec, and then testing of the top 2 or 3, followed by cam phase testing, head flow report, crank output and bsfc reports (SF-901 engine dyno). Tolerances to 0.00005" (just over 1 micron), complete dynamic balance to 0.1 ounce-inches, part assemblies to 0.1 gram etc. Sunnen and Superflow industry standard equipment. All this for the same price, or less than the usual race output crate engine would cost. Possible by compromise on labour costs on my part.
What I am more sure about is that Spoon has motors that make peak power right around 25m/s and are shifted somewhere around the 26m/s mark. In one of the Hot Version tests they had that same type of engine shifting at the 30m/s mark for fun, and it blew up during the test. Kind of reinforces the concept of a 25/26 m/s reliability barrier.
When are you thinking about building this engine? How much do you expect to spend on the engine alone? Would you be interested in a DART based B16 with the best bits, and an induction system optimized from the best the market as a whole has to offer in terms of cams? Selection narrowing by spec, and then testing of the top 2 or 3, followed by cam phase testing, head flow report, crank output and bsfc reports (SF-901 engine dyno). Tolerances to 0.00005" (just over 1 micron), complete dynamic balance to 0.1 ounce-inches, part assemblies to 0.1 gram etc. Sunnen and Superflow industry standard equipment. All this for the same price, or less than the usual race output crate engine would cost. Possible by compromise on labour costs on my part.
Hmmm I'm not sure when I will start building this track car. But I so hope to get it done sometime past X'Mas, which I hope there's a nice bonus coming up!! Hehehe!!
Till now I've only thought of 2 places to build this engine. Either at ST Power or Gary's Engineering.
Regarding the Spoon engine, I've seen for myself personally the 12k rpm B16. The limit is set at 12k but the gear shift is best set at 10500rpm. Apprently the extra rev claimed by the driver and workshop in HK is for that extra bit of grunt to overtake your opponent during an exit from a wide apex.
As for the financial part, a brand new Spoon engine would cost around the region of $28k. That excludes the distributor, intake and exhaust manifold.
However like I said, it all boils down to how much I would have left at the end of the year hehehehe!
Till now I've only thought of 2 places to build this engine. Either at ST Power or Gary's Engineering.
Regarding the Spoon engine, I've seen for myself personally the 12k rpm B16. The limit is set at 12k but the gear shift is best set at 10500rpm. Apprently the extra rev claimed by the driver and workshop in HK is for that extra bit of grunt to overtake your opponent during an exit from a wide apex.
As for the financial part, a brand new Spoon engine would cost around the region of $28k. That excludes the distributor, intake and exhaust manifold.
However like I said, it all boils down to how much I would have left at the end of the year hehehehe!
