Guess about time I intro'd myself

Repeat.. assuming you get a nice bonus at year end...Would you be interested in a DART based B16 with the best bits, and an induction system optimized from the best the market as a whole has to offer in terms of cams? Selection narrowing by spec, and then testing of the top 2 or 3, followed by cam phase testing, head flow report, crank output and bsfc reports (SF-901 engine dyno). Tolerances to 0.00005" (just over 1 micron), complete dynamic balance to 0.1 ounce-inches, part assemblies to 0.1 gram etc. Sunnen and Superflow industry standard equipment. All this for the same price, or less than the usual race output crate engine would cost. Possible by compromise on labour costs on my part. In other words, less than 28K SGD. Built here in the US,and shipped to you in Singapore.
 
Is this built by Erik's racing? I visited him once when I was posted to LA for work. Extremely impressive engines he has there. I'm also astounded by the 1/4 mile timings made by the B18s. At only 1.8 litres they are able to what, power a T78-33D??? Thats bloody impressive!!

The DART engine sounds impressive. Could you perhaps tell me more about this engine?
 
Re: Guess about time I intro'd myself

rex7_vtec said:
HAHAWOWHA said:

So far so good, work is shitty. Glad we cleared things up. At least we know who the asshole stirring the "Shit" behind us is.

Yea, its kool. Anyway i dun stick with him no more. He claims im hes bro but i dun think sooooo.
 
rex7_vtec said:
Is this built by Erik's racing? I visited him once when I was posted to LA for work. Extremely impressive engines he has there.

Nope, not by Erik's racing in LA. Built by me with the facilities I have access to.

I'm also astounded by the 1/4 mile timings made by the B18s. At only 1.8 litres they are able to what, power a T78-33D??? Thats bloody impressive!!

Turbos are ruled by physical laws and the only way he is getting a T78 to spool up off 1.8L base displacement is by revving the hell out of it (or spooling with N20 or using N20 all the way) and making a narrow powerband (minus N20). I'm not saying this is bad.. this is exactly what needs to be done to make the most power out of given displacement and is like you say, impressive. It is useful that in drag racing you never have to fall out of powerband due to gearing optimized for max accel in a straight line. Different from road course racing.

The DART engine sounds impressive. Could you perhaps tell me more about this engine?

It is a custom casting C355-T6 alunimium alloy block. Closed deck (vs open for stock), reinforced webbing, steel main caps, piston oil sprayers, thicker bore walls, replaceable ductile iron sleeves, larger water jackets. It comes in tall deck form as an option (if you want more displacement and/or feel better with a better rod ratio). Here is how beefy the block is....

1.JPG

9.JPG


The block is outlawed by the NHRA which is the largest drag racing body in the US, because it is deemed an unfair advantage to the Honda guys who use it. This is because the Mitsus and the Toyotas that run in the same class do not have such an aftermarket option for their engines and the NHRA wants to keep the field competitive.

Parts.. CNC or custom ported head, full race valvetrain, forged 4340 or 6/4 Ti rods, forged pistons, forged crank, ARP fasteners. Precision assembly and balancing as mentioned. It seems kind of surface right now because I do not know exactly what details in what area you would like. To list them all would take a lot of time.

I am still unsure about what your targets actually are.. is there a power target? an RPM target? a displacement limit? why would there be one if the car is an unregistered one? what gas do you plan to run? what form of engine management do you plan to run? how much track mileage do you want it to run between freshenings? Also, what are your main concerns, if any, regarding potentially working with me, the whole design/build/tune(?) process, timeline, etc..

Component specs I can go deep into but going into it all will take a lot of time. Would be better if you just asked me specific questions. The main thing I want to put across to you is that if you want, I intend to make this a development engine - develop it to the highest level within limitations specified by you. If you are serious and want references to people I've worked with previously and who still run some of the cars I've helped them with, or people who have known me as a friend, I can give them to you. To clear up doubt with regards to my integrity, interest in development, current expertise. No bragging intended, but I take care of friends and spare no energy when it comes to development.

I am most interested in seeing an engine I develop run at Sepang or PG because those are the tracks I am most familiar with (known benchmarks). I am not yet familiar with any track in the US yet and currently don't have time to attend events, races to get a feel for them so it is hard to form a benchmark. I also do not have money right now to build my own track car and get a feel for the tracks. The closest ones are 2-3 hours from where I am and track fees are expensive. On this topic, what are your previous laptimes at PG and/or SP in all those cars you mentioned you owned before?
 
Hmm from the pic itself, the block does look extremely impressive. Much needless to say not many people in Singapore run closed deck Honda engines.

I've only done Sepang on the rex before. During the time it was stock standard with only 3'inch pipe and Falken ST115s. Best time I did for that was 2.46. Not exactly the most impressive timing but hell I had lotsa fun. For the Integra, it was driven in Perth. Best 1/4mile timing was 13.7secs. I only had Iceman, TODA C cams, sprockets, full exhaust and ECU. Running 16' stock rims with Yokohama ES100s. For the Evo, I did a 10.37sec 0-300m. The Evo was pretty much standard on the turbo. Only the internals were strengthened. Was using a close ratio dogbox, which I think did the trick.

In regards to the Honda engine, having the 12k rpm is just a fantasy of mine. You know how orgasmic a Vtec with quad throts sound at 10000rpm and beyond. Something like a mini version of the F1 cars! I'm looking to achieve a decent 200-220bhp at the wheels from a 1.6litre motor on normal 98 fuel. Of course the car would be lightened to a bare skeleton to compensate for the roll cage.

I'm not aiming to cream a Porsche or Ferrari on the track (of course putting aside first my novice driving skills) but more or less because I never had the time and cash then to achieve this power in my Integra.

I only managed to pull 180 odd bhp on normal street fuel back then. Its always been my dream to torture the Vtec with the high revs... Sounds sadistic but I do like hearing the roar of the motor once it crosses into the Vtec zone.

So when you coming back to Singapore? Perhaps we could work on a track car together!

Regards
Barry
 
2:46 is a good time for an STI with that few mods.

I'm looking to achieve a decent 200-220bhp at the wheels from a 1.6litre motor on normal 98 fuel.

200-220 wheel hp is approx 240-260 crank hp. Divided by 1.6L you are looking at displacement specific outputs of 150-160hp per litre. This is approaching Touring Car territory. IIRC they run 99/100RON fuel. Formula Atlantic engines at 1.6L making 250hp, run CSP as a spec fuel (108 RON). These are engines that afford teardowns every few hundred miles, and considering that Malaysian 97RON is what you'll be running at the track most times if you want convenience, I think you will have to compromise on your desired output if you want something that will last at least a couple of thousand miles. Remember that freshening an engine of that spec is not even an option in Singapore.

Your requirements preclude building the engine in Singapore. You will have to get a crate racing engine from a foreign country. Singapore does not have equipment of the right specification much less the machinists to operate them. Assembly is possible, but still doubtful. There are people who will read this and privately try to convince you that I'm dumb/ignorant , but just ask them..

1) Where their file for build sheets on engines they've built in the past is. There will be none. Ask for a photocopy of a real sample page. They will not have one, and if somehow they do, specs will be incomplete/wrong/imprecise.
2) How they expect to do flow testing without a flow bench. There is no flow bench in Singapore.
3) How they expect to repeatably mechanically and thermally load a race engine, swap parts out for quick r&d, know actual crank power without an engine dyno. There is no engine dyno in Singapore.
4) What cylinder wall surface profile they run and what hone and grit (process) they run to arrive at it.

So when you coming back to Singapore? Perhaps we could work on a track car together!

Man I wish I had met you earlier. If this had been 2 years ago we'd definitely be building a car. I was looking for a good partner, but never found one. But seriously, I'm not returning to Singapore anytime soon (3 years or so - very possibly more) and even if I do sometime in the future, I would not have access to the right equipment to build a true race spec engine. I will only be at my current location and have access to the facilities for another one and a half years, afterwhich I seek employment here. I probably will not have time for personal projects then.
 
Shaun said:
2:46 is a good time for an STI with that few mods.

I'm looking to achieve a decent 200-220bhp at the wheels from a 1.6litre motor on normal 98 fuel.

200-220 wheel hp is approx 240-260 crank hp. Divided by 1.6L you are looking at displacement specific outputs of 150-160hp per litre. This is approaching Touring Car territory. IIRC they run 99/100RON fuel. Formula Atlantic engines at 1.6L making 250hp, run CSP as a spec fuel (108 RON). These are engines that afford teardowns every few hundred miles, and considering that Malaysian 97RON is what you'll be running at the track most times if you want convenience, I think you will have to compromise on your desired output if you want something that will last at least a couple of thousand miles. Remember that freshening an engine of that spec is not even an option in Singapore.

Your requirements preclude building the engine in Singapore. You will have to get a crate racing engine from a foreign country. Singapore does not have equipment of the right specification much less the machinists to operate them. Assembly is possible, but still doubtful. There are people who will read this and privately try to convince you that I'm dumb/ignorant , but just ask them..

1) Where their file for build sheets on engines they've built in the past is. There will be none. Ask for a photocopy of a real sample page. They will not have one, and if somehow they do, specs will be incomplete/wrong/imprecise.
2) How they expect to do flow testing without a flow bench. There is no flow bench in Singapore.
3) How they expect to repeatably mechanically and thermally load a race engine, swap parts out for quick r&d, know actual crank power without an engine dyno. There is no engine dyno in Singapore.
4) What cylinder wall surface profile they run and what hone and grit (process) they run to arrive at it.

So when you coming back to Singapore? Perhaps we could work on a track car together!

Man I wish I had met you earlier. If this had been 2 years ago we'd definitely be building a car. I was looking for a good partner, but never found one. But seriously, I'm not returning to Singapore anytime soon (3 years or so - very possibly more) and even if I do sometime in the future, I would not have access to the right equipment to build a true race spec engine. I will only be at my current location and have access to the facilities for another one and a half years, afterwhich I seek employment here. I probably will not have time for personal projects then.

Hehehe at that point of time I was'nt running an STi it was a JDM spec WRX, 250bhp. It was the first batch of WRX that MI brought in. Dunno why I went for that car though. It did'nt even come with the standard 4 pot brakes, I had to change them myself aftermarket.

In regards to the engine, the best 1.6 so far I've seen at the dyno (it was a dynapack, the ones where it is attached to the hub) was producing 230 at the wheels. It was running 13.2:1 compression though. Using Elf LMS fuel. I think if we use standard RON98 210bhp at the wheels achievable?

As for the project car, no worries about that! 3 years down the road, I believe a NA Vtec motor would still kick ass!


Regards
Barry
 
rex7_vtec said:
Hehehe at that point of time I was'nt running an STi it was a JDM spec WRX, 250bhp. It was the first batch of WRX that MI brought in. Dunno why I went for that car though. It did'nt even come with the standard 4 pot brakes, I had to change them myself aftermarket.

Which makes your 2:46 even better. Was this 2:46 achieved with the 180km/h speedcut in place? Stock boost levels?

In regards to the engine, the best 1.6 so far I've seen at the dyno (it was a dynapack, the ones where it is attached to the hub) was producing 230 at the wheels. It was running 13.2:1 compression though. Using Elf LMS fuel.

Elf LMS fuel is 102 RON. The power you quote works out to 170hp/litre and I seriously doubt it. Even if it did make that power it wouldn't do so reliably for long. If this engine was used in competition and subject to scrutineering , and not just set up for limited duration pulls (whether dyno or drag), making those numbers this engine should be world renowned.

I think if we use standard RON98 210bhp at the wheels achievable?

Tough to do with a 1.6L. Very expensive. ITBs, dry sump, very high rev, lots of headwork, limited mileage before teardown. Like I said if you want reliability, a decent teardown interval, on 98 RON, crank power as directly measured at crank and not derived from wheels will be around 220hp.

As for the project car, no worries about that! 3 years down the road, I believe a NA Vtec motor would still kick ass!


Regards
Barry

If you read the posts I made previously, it cannot be machined/flowed/tested/developed repeatably in Singapore. I would not have much interest in putting money into an engine without the possibility of development. Also if I am sharing a track car I will make it a cost effective one - engine that does not require frequent teardown, one that is a largely unstressed unit, something powerful (I6, V8). This would mean a larger displacement and/or forced induction engine. Opposite of high specific output NA Honda motor. Not that I don't like it, but the magic for me is in the development and not running it and suffering the associated high costs. That I leave up to you or anyone else who wants to hahah, but if I am to have share in it, then I go for practical and simple....that is all I can afford right now.

Cheers
 
Yikes, pardon me for the mistake regardng the 1.6 motor. It was 230bhp at the fly!

As for the rex, it was running standard boost. However I think due to the enlarged downpipe and exhaust, the boost was slightly higher and peaked at 0.95-1bar.

In regards to the developement of the Vtec motor, apparently some of the engines were were sent to either Thailand or Japan for intensive testing and strengthening. I'm not sure how true this matter is. But there are really some impressive Vtecs running around on Singapore roads. 1.8litre vtecs chomping down evos and stis for breakfast lunch and dinner. Of course occasionally supper down at Orchard Gudang.

Regards
Barry
 
rex7_vtec said:
Yikes, pardon me for the mistake regardng the 1.6 motor. It was 230bhp at the fly!

Ah hah.. cricitcal error. Heheh.. just joking, but seriously.. it is as I suspected and now much more logical! :thumbsup: esp with 102 RON at over 13:1 comp.

As for the rex, it was running standard boost. However I think due to the enlarged downpipe and exhaust, the boost was slightly higher and peaked at 0.95-1bar.

What about stock 180km/h speed limiter? On a stock Evo 8 the speed limiter cuts in towards the end of both front and back straights for the last couple of seconds and the car just sits there. :evil:

In regards to the developement of the Vtec motor, apparently some of the engines were were sent to either Thailand or Japan for intensive testing and strengthening. I'm not sure how true this matter is. But there are really some impressive Vtecs running around on Singapore roads. 1.8litre vtecs chomping down evos and stis for breakfast lunch and dinner. Of course occasionally supper down at Orchard Gudang.

Regards
Barry

Yes, like I said foreign countries are always an option. Orchard Gudang is IMO for squirrels. No point. No true quantification, too many variables, breaking the law, endangering lives. I'm glad the police are cracking down.

On the other hand, looking at PG and SP with Hondas down in the 1:40s and 2:30s range respectively, it is nice to see what light weight and good engineering can do. :)
 
So work hard now.. and clinch that big bonus year end :thumbsup: And then gimme a yell hahha.
 
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