E60 bhp :helpp!:
- Thread starter Leonwei
- Start date
eggz
Well-Known Member
Re: E60 bhp 
Oh yeah, there are versions of the 3.0l R6 that can do 265hp stock, this is the case on the 130i and the coming Z4 hardtop.
I wonder if this means a ECU map + maybe some other minor changes can bring the R6 in the 530i or E90 330i to 265hp as well....anyone knows about this?
Oh yeah, there are versions of the 3.0l R6 that can do 265hp stock, this is the case on the 130i and the coming Z4 hardtop.
I wonder if this means a ECU map + maybe some other minor changes can bring the R6 in the 530i or E90 330i to 265hp as well....anyone knows about this?
Re: E60 bhp
all new 530is (R6 engine) are 258hp. eggs is saying that the same R6 engine found in the 130i however is somehow producing 265hp. it may have been tuned in some ways...but if u get a new 530i from pml now it only gives 258hp. no mods involved here.
all new 530is (R6 engine) are 258hp. eggs is saying that the same R6 engine found in the 130i however is somehow producing 265hp. it may have been tuned in some ways...but if u get a new 530i from pml now it only gives 258hp. no mods involved here.
Re: E60 bhp
Chip tuning by a reputable tuner should give significant improvements on the new 523i since it uses the same engine as the 525i. I have been in contact with Hiop in Germany for some time and they claim 10-15hp more than a standard 525i for the 523i. I would be happy with even half of that!!
I have heard people say that DMS is better but apparently Hiop were one of the first (if not the first) to tune the valvetronic engine. Valvetronic engines are their forte! ECUs are now so advanced that there is very little need to modify the air/fuel mixture as they are "smart" enough to adjust the mixture according to the requirements of the modified ignition curves!
I for one will not be waiting for DMS to come out with a mod for the 523i and will try give Hiop a try. Just because DMS charges more does not necessarily mean it is better. They are effectively selling out of UK so it is UK pricing (have to pay for air ticket to fly out to Singapore too!). Hiop is distributed locally so it is up to the Singapore dealer to charge the appropriate level and still make money! For me, having a local rep is always better. (I haven't dealt with J4C before so I am hoping that they are up to expectations)
The above is just my opinion and I am sure that many members will not agree. DMS has a great reputation and many of you are very happy with their DMS modified rides. If they had the mod now and had local support, I too would use them. But they don't....
Leonwei said:
Chip tuning by a reputable tuner should give significant improvements on the new 523i since it uses the same engine as the 525i. I have been in contact with Hiop in Germany for some time and they claim 10-15hp more than a standard 525i for the 523i. I would be happy with even half of that!!
I have heard people say that DMS is better but apparently Hiop were one of the first (if not the first) to tune the valvetronic engine. Valvetronic engines are their forte! ECUs are now so advanced that there is very little need to modify the air/fuel mixture as they are "smart" enough to adjust the mixture according to the requirements of the modified ignition curves!
I for one will not be waiting for DMS to come out with a mod for the 523i and will try give Hiop a try. Just because DMS charges more does not necessarily mean it is better. They are effectively selling out of UK so it is UK pricing (have to pay for air ticket to fly out to Singapore too!). Hiop is distributed locally so it is up to the Singapore dealer to charge the appropriate level and still make money! For me, having a local rep is always better. (I haven't dealt with J4C before so I am hoping that they are up to expectations)
The above is just my opinion and I am sure that many members will not agree. DMS has a great reputation and many of you are very happy with their DMS modified rides. If they had the mod now and had local support, I too would use them. But they don't....
Re: E60 bhp
DMS and hiop does different thing to the ECU. if u know...dms not only changes the air/fuel mix...it shanges the torque curve, peak revs, lifts the cam lobes, ignition timing as well....vast difference...
last i know hiop does nothing to the cam shafts...ecu tuning is more complicated than fuel/air.
DMS and hiop does different thing to the ECU. if u know...dms not only changes the air/fuel mix...it shanges the torque curve, peak revs, lifts the cam lobes, ignition timing as well....vast difference...
last i know hiop does nothing to the cam shafts...ecu tuning is more complicated than fuel/air.
Re: E60 bhp
The shape of the torque curve is determined by the ignition map, not the air/fuel mixture. The correct mixture has to be supplied according to the ignition(plus other variables) and apparently the new ECUs can do most of this automatically so not much work needs to be done on the air/fuel mix. Most of the work is done on the ignition curve, Valvetronic, Vanos etc to get the best power and torque curves for drivability or whatever you desire out of the mod. From what you have said, apparently DMS will do custom programming so your peak torque/power is at a certain point. I have not asked Hiop for anything special as I want to see how the standard curves work first.
The shape of the torque curve is determined by the ignition map, not the air/fuel mixture. The correct mixture has to be supplied according to the ignition(plus other variables) and apparently the new ECUs can do most of this automatically so not much work needs to be done on the air/fuel mix. Most of the work is done on the ignition curve, Valvetronic, Vanos etc to get the best power and torque curves for drivability or whatever you desire out of the mod. From what you have said, apparently DMS will do custom programming so your peak torque/power is at a certain point. I have not asked Hiop for anything special as I want to see how the standard curves work first.
Racebred
Core Group Members
Re: E60 bhp
dms is customisable, if you sit down with rob and tell him what you want. He will also do road tuning for you if needed. For Hiop, you have a standard fit program. but, you list down what are the mods you already have, they email to germany and they will think what the map should be like, then they email you back. it's like operating on a patient through long-distance. There would also be additional cost if you want them to do some customisation. But DMS is more expensive, so, pros and cons. DMS is also not without faults. sometimes the map doesnt work well but rob will come down and solve/ fine tune it for you subsequently. I could be wrong about the hiop way, so do correct me if i'm wrong.
stock ecus are tuned for a good balance of fuel consumption, but if you are already modding your car for power, one would assume you dont really care for consumption. therefore more power can still be gleaned from tweaking AFR, to values different from stock. thats where the ecu mods come in.
thats why ecu mods that target ONLY afr, like safc, can still gain you some bhp.
dms is customisable, if you sit down with rob and tell him what you want. He will also do road tuning for you if needed. For Hiop, you have a standard fit program. but, you list down what are the mods you already have, they email to germany and they will think what the map should be like, then they email you back. it's like operating on a patient through long-distance. There would also be additional cost if you want them to do some customisation. But DMS is more expensive, so, pros and cons. DMS is also not without faults. sometimes the map doesnt work well but rob will come down and solve/ fine tune it for you subsequently. I could be wrong about the hiop way, so do correct me if i'm wrong.
stock ecus are tuned for a good balance of fuel consumption, but if you are already modding your car for power, one would assume you dont really care for consumption. therefore more power can still be gleaned from tweaking AFR, to values different from stock. thats where the ecu mods come in.
thats why ecu mods that target ONLY afr, like safc, can still gain you some bhp.
Re: E60 bhp
I am not sure how customisable Hiop can be. Since I don't think I will mod my car too much it does not matter. The only things I might do is to improve the breathing, but from what I understand, the ECU can handle simple mods like that without any change. If you start changing cams, injectors, etc then that will be another matter!
I am not sure how customisable Hiop can be. Since I don't think I will mod my car too much it does not matter. The only things I might do is to improve the breathing, but from what I understand, the ECU can handle simple mods like that without any change. If you start changing cams, injectors, etc then that will be another matter!
Re: E60 bhp
hi racebred,
""for non forced induction mods to your car, you have to look at intake, exhaust, cames, pulleys, sparks, grounding, ecu, etc. if properly done up, i would expect you to be able to gain about 20-25bhp. for about $5-6k thereabouts.
i brought the 523 44k less than the 525i thats a huge saving knowing that its mod potential.i am keen on cai, exhaust,grounding,pulleys and dms or hiop.
but which is the best of each group ie what brand to choose and how do i go about doing it
thanks
no sc
hi racebred,
""for non forced induction mods to your car, you have to look at intake, exhaust, cames, pulleys, sparks, grounding, ecu, etc. if properly done up, i would expect you to be able to gain about 20-25bhp. for about $5-6k thereabouts.
i brought the 523 44k less than the 525i thats a huge saving knowing that its mod potential.i am keen on cai, exhaust,grounding,pulleys and dms or hiop.
but which is the best of each group ie what brand to choose and how do i go about doing it
thanks
no sc
Re: E60 bhp
A quick update:
I have just been told that J4C cannot do my car this weekend becuase they do not have the correct hardware to connect up to the car/ECU. It will take them about another month to get it
Also that I can only expect an additional 20hp, not the 10-15hp above a 525i I had been told by Hiop. Apparently there was a miscommunication:furious:
J4C says that this is due to differences in cams, intake manifold, etc between the 523i and 525i. I had a quick looks at the parts list for both cars and everything seems to be the same except for the "Programmed MSV70 Control Unit". The website I used to check was provided by Zag. See http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do. Anyone care to help look through for differences???
Looks like more waiting! Maybe DMS will be able to beat Hiop to it after all! Let the race begin!
A quick update:
I have just been told that J4C cannot do my car this weekend becuase they do not have the correct hardware to connect up to the car/ECU. It will take them about another month to get it
Also that I can only expect an additional 20hp, not the 10-15hp above a 525i I had been told by Hiop. Apparently there was a miscommunication:furious:
J4C says that this is due to differences in cams, intake manifold, etc between the 523i and 525i. I had a quick looks at the parts list for both cars and everything seems to be the same except for the "Programmed MSV70 Control Unit". The website I used to check was provided by Zag. See http://www.realoem.com/bmw/select.do. Anyone care to help look through for differences???
Looks like more waiting! Maybe DMS will be able to beat Hiop to it after all! Let the race begin!
Re: E60 bhp
Just thinking … if the 523 is so “easily” tuned to the performance of 525, or better, than from a pure business point of view, BMW they will be shooting themselves in the foot. How will they than able to move their 525s?
The fact that they have the same engine (so we were led to believe) on both 523 and 525, they must have implemented some “anti-hack” safe guard to prevent tuners from hacking into their ECU etc.
Is it impossible? Probably not, but I am not sure the average tuners (including HiOP, DMS etc) have the resources and knowledge to do a proper job. Perhaps I will be more comfortable with tuners that are more closely related to BMW, like ACS.
My ½ cents …
Just thinking … if the 523 is so “easily” tuned to the performance of 525, or better, than from a pure business point of view, BMW they will be shooting themselves in the foot. How will they than able to move their 525s?
The fact that they have the same engine (so we were led to believe) on both 523 and 525, they must have implemented some “anti-hack” safe guard to prevent tuners from hacking into their ECU etc.
Is it impossible? Probably not, but I am not sure the average tuners (including HiOP, DMS etc) have the resources and knowledge to do a proper job. Perhaps I will be more comfortable with tuners that are more closely related to BMW, like ACS.
My ½ cents …
Re: E60 bhp
The price difference in Singapore is huge because PML include options like GPS, Adaptive lights and Active steer to justify the price difference. In the UK the price diff is only about $3000 for similarly equiped cars. If you look at the OMV prices, the mark-up is more than double for the 525i!
I was told that a 525i ECU will not work in a 523i, but if everything else is the same I don't see why not! Worth exploring. Anyone know of any 525i wrecks I can buy the ECU from?
The price difference in Singapore is huge because PML include options like GPS, Adaptive lights and Active steer to justify the price difference. In the UK the price diff is only about $3000 for similarly equiped cars. If you look at the OMV prices, the mark-up is more than double for the 525i!
I was told that a 525i ECU will not work in a 523i, but if everything else is the same I don't see why not! Worth exploring. Anyone know of any 525i wrecks I can buy the ECU from?
Re: E60 bhp
thats a good one buy a 525I ecu.didnt know you could do that.
what other power mods do you intend to do.
i think its better to get a cai, exhaust, grounding pulleys (not availabel yet) first then work on the ecu...am i right?
any body whats the best cai exhaust for a 523I
TIA
thats a good one buy a 525I ecu.didnt know you could do that.
what other power mods do you intend to do.
i think its better to get a cai, exhaust, grounding pulleys (not availabel yet) first then work on the ecu...am i right?
any body whats the best cai exhaust for a 523I
TIA
Re: E60 bhp
I do not intend to do many mods. I just want a "little" more power without extensive work, therefore just the ECU and maybe the air filter. At most a better looking exhaust. I want to retain the refinement of the stock car, so no big loud exhaust and CAI. As for the looks maybe a M bodykit & sports suspension with bigger wheels.
I do not intend to do many mods. I just want a "little" more power without extensive work, therefore just the ECU and maybe the air filter. At most a better looking exhaust. I want to retain the refinement of the stock car, so no big loud exhaust and CAI. As for the looks maybe a M bodykit & sports suspension with bigger wheels.
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