Help Engine sludge. what to do?

[tlkchew]

Hi all,
Fixed a water leak today and had to have the cam shaft cover removed in order to reach the leak are. and low and behold! oil sludge!
I certainly hope this is not normal.
The last careless driver must have followed PML's advice to drive until 0 (about 25k km) before changing oil and he probably drove another 25 before changing!

Anyone have suggestion what is best done? engine flush a few time good enough?
a top overhaul would be an over kill no?

looking for any suggestions.

Thanks!
kenny

 

[jinooi]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

go read up Car Bibles : The Engine Oil Bible

from now on, change you engine oil more frequently - every 3000km or so (you might want to use the cheaper kind instead of the more expensive ones for the time being since you are going to change it frequently anyway). and do an engine flush every time you change your oil.

also, it helps if you rev your engine hard (whilst driving) now and then. do not do it when stationary. more than 4500rpm. it will help to dislodge the sludge and hopefully get it trapped in the filter.

go for longer drives, instead of short ones in start stop traffic. will help to circulate the oil and remove the sludge.

should clear up after a few oil changes...

doesn't look as bad as some of the ones i have seen and heard about.

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

wow good read!
you are quite right to say that it is not as bad as it looks.

the mech who was fitting the new part shown in the third pic, just advised engine flush.

the moving parts are all covered with oil and not much sludge. just those stationary part or area where there are no contact are where the sludge had built up.

I think i will run 5k km with cheaper synthetic. and flush every time. good enough you think?
I dont want all the gunk to be cleaned up in case the piston rings gets too clean?

thanks again for the advice and the bible was good read indeed

 

[ttee]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

........................

 

[jinooi]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

besides changing oil more frequently, also rev harder when you can, and take longer trips.

the idea is to get the oil heated up, and for a longer time so that it will help to dissolve some of the gunk, and flush out the bits.

most of the bits that are flushed out will get trapped in the filter, and those that dissolve will er... dissolve in the oil and taken out of the system when you change your oil.

3-4 changes will usually settle the problem. so 3-5k interval will take some time. the more distance you drive, and the more frequent you change your oil, the faster the problem gets remedied.

 

[davidtch]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

I think a lot of u disagree wif my suggestion to use Diesel Engine Oil. However, i witness a E36 325 with sludge cure with Diesel Engine Oil.

Use it for 1 wk & don't hard rev. After that, change it with your usual engine oil.

Hope this will help u.

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

Do not do top overhaul now, try the Jinooi method first, for the longer drives, best in malaysia highway but do not "choing" too fast in the beginning, slowly increase the speed. Do not forget to change the oil fliter everytime you change your engine oil.

Thanks for the inputs, yes I will try jinooi's Advice first.
I am quite a heavy driver coz i need to get to senai weekly. Rod the Guru will atest to that hehe.
problem only is the daily short drive. Sengkang to thompson....

any suggestion for a "cheaper" synth oil?


it'll be intresting to see what kind of crap is deposited in the oil filter.
I did scrap some the stuff off. its like "Chow tar" stuff. much like your burnt food stuck on the frying pan

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

besides changing oil more frequently, also rev harder when you can, and take longer trips.

the idea is to get the oil heated up, and for a longer time so that it will help to dissolve some of the gunk, and flush out the bits.

most of the bits that are flushed out will get trapped in the filter, and those that dissolve will er... dissolve in the oil and taken out of the system when you change your oil.

3-4 changes will usually settle the problem. so 3-5k interval will take some time. the more distance you drive, and the more frequent you change your oil, the faster the problem gets remedied.

Great! I will aim for 3k if time permits. otherwise its 5k. would be easier if i have the tools and DIY

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

I think a lot of u disagree wif my suggestion to use Diesel Engine Oil. However, i witness a E36 325 with sludge cure with Diesel Engine Oil.

Use it for 1 wk & don't hard rev. After that, change it with your usual engine oil.

Hope this will help u.

hmmm... thanks for the infor... Let see if the flush for the next 9k (3 changes) makes a diff

otherwise this can be an option.

wonder whats in the properties of the diesel engine oil that make it clean? is it because it is alot "thinner" ?

 

[ttee]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

.................................

 

[davidtch]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

hmmm... thanks for the infor... Let see if the flush for the next 9k (3 changes) makes a diff

otherwise this can be an option.

wonder whats in the properties of the diesel engine oil that make it clean? is it because it is alot "thinner" ?

Diesel engine oil has higher proportion of cleansing agent. If u use diesel engine oil for 1 wk, don't rev ur engine pass 3k RPM.

 

[E83_X3]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

Fixed a water leak today and had to have the cam shaft cover removed in order to reach the leak are. and low and behold! oil sludge!

Need to ask this .... your nick says that you are driving an E46, but did not say which engine model.

Isn't that the Valvetronic motor sitting on top of the cam shafts?

If so, yours must be the last-batch E46 with came with N46B20 (318i), an IL-4, from the cam-lobes count.

Why I ask is because there has been widespread global feedback on the tendancy for the Valvetronic engines, including the N52 (IL-6) to form oil sludge, due to higher operating temperatures than compared to the previous non-Valvetronic N42 (IL-4) and M54 (IL-6) engines.

 

[E83_X3]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

BTW, did you ever mix mineral with synthetic lube oil in the same sump? Never do that!

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

Need to ask this .... your nick says that you are driving an E46, but did not say which engine model.

Isn't that the Valvetronic motor sitting on top of the cam shafts?

If so, yours must be the last-batch E46 with came with N46B20 (318i), an IL-4, from the cam-lobes count.

Why I ask is because there has been widespread global feedback on the tendancy for the Valvetronic engines, including the N52 (IL-6) to form oil sludge, due to higher operating temperatures than compared to the previous non-Valvetronic N42 (IL-4) and M54 (IL-6) engines.

bingo, I have the N46B20.
could this be the reason?
yes that the v/v tronic good spotting.

this engine runs really hot.
is it the same as the current 320i? they have the n46b20 as well but with a bit more kick 149 horses.

 

[E83_X3]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

bingo, I have the N46B20.
could this be the reason?
yes that the v/v tronic good spotting.

this engine runs really hot.
is it the same as the current 320i? they have the n46b20 as well but with a bit more kick 149 horses.

Well, if you look at my signoff, you'd realise my position taken on BMW's Valvetronic technology.

Just don't agree with the concept of having an electric stepper motor built onto a super-hot engine block, controlling variable valve lift. Stepper motors are like those used in dot-matrix printers and denitely not designed for high-temperature operations (especially for a tropical climate like Singapore's).

And now this engine lube oil sludge problem.

BTW, I rushed to buy the last M54-based X3, before PML brought in the N52-based Valvetronic X3. I'd rather forego the extra horses and torque, for a much more reliable (and proven) engine.

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

BTW, did you ever mix mineral with synthetic lube oil in the same sump? Never do that!

nopes never done that before. but was running 50 weight mineral oil for a while after some oil leak fix a few months ago.
Changed it out 1 week later at BVO.

 

[tlkchew]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

]Well, if you look at my signoff, you'd realise my position taken on BMW's Valvetronic technology.

Just don't agree with the concept of having an electric stepper motor built onto a super-hot engine block, controlling variable valve lift. Stepper motors are like those used in dot-matrix printers and denitely not designed for high-temperature operations (especially for a tropical climate like Singapore's).

Now who's bright idea was it to put and electric motor in a furnace?


And now this engine lube oil sludge problem.

I dont know if its the engine problem or the previous owner. the cars got only 80k on it, i have driven 20k on it myself and religiously change oil at 10k intervals.
it is possible that the previous owner followed PML's recommendation of servicing every 25k?



BTW, I rushed to buy the last M54-based X3, before PML brought in the N52-based Valvetronic X3. I'd rather forego the extra horses and torque, for a much more reliable (and proven) engine.

Wise choice

 

[jinooi]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

there is no direct connection between valvetronic and engine sludge. as tlkchew can probably tell you (after reading car bibles), even direct engines suffer from engine sludge.

it's not a problem with the engine. it's what oil you use, how often you change the oil, and your driving pattern.

and by the way, the M54 has double vanos - same difference...

 

[E83_X3]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

I dont know if its the engine problem or the previous owner. the cars got only 80k on it, i have driven 20k on it myself and religiously change oil at 10k intervals.
it is possible that the previous owner followed PML's recommendation of servicing every 25k?

Well even if he did service it every 25k km, he was just doing it based on PML's (and BMW's) 'then' recommendation.

I never agreed with that too.

I have challlenged PML many years ago (when they were still on interval-based servicing) like such:

"How can BMW apply an across-the-board 25,000 km oil change interval, when the breakdown of lube oil to sludge / acids, is dictated by the way individuals drive their cars, the RPMs they average and not just based on cummulative mileage?

BMW makes cars and even if they test their cars using a certail lube oil brand, how can they guarantee the life of the lube oil up to 25,000 km, when the manufacturer themselves, of the synthetic lubes, only guarantees theirs up to 10,000 km?

You make the oil, or I make the oil?"

(well, by that, you'd have guessed rightly that I work for an oil major!)

It was like a personal battle won, when after many years, BMW has finally and officially (in 2009) announced world-wide that they have reduced the recommended lube oil change intervals to 15,000 km (first) and later, down to 10,000 km.

At last, BMW has come to their senses. :nutkick:

 

[ktnpl]

Re: Help Engine sludge. what to do?

BMW has finally and officially (in 2009) announced world-wide that they have reduced the recommended lube oil change intervals to 15,000 km (first) and later, down to 10,000 km.

I was told by PML that the oil change is about 12,000 km. That's about once a year for me.