workshop and car starting problem !!!!

[fabsmiche]

i had a very bad week this week. my car got bumped by this guy from the back. luckily my car was stationary.

anyways, story is as follows. i think i'm going to end up banging chairs and table of the workshop tomorrow. this is bloody ridiculous.

my friend advised me the last time when i bought the car that i should probably bring the car to the workshop for a major inspection. so end Oct 04 it was in the workshop. sometime early this year, i started having problem starting my car......... so since my car got bumped today i decided to get a quote for the bump and also at the same time see what they will say with regards to the starting problem.

the cost of changing the (i think that's what he told me) pulse generator is about 480. so i have said not to change it yet. when i went to pickup my car they levied a 150 charge. this is ridiculous.

the workshop's logic is that "oh, in Oct 04, the major inspection, the problem didn't show up" therefore now we have to charge you when your car in so long as it's after the major inspection done.

i feel like if starting the car is not important then why do i even bring it in for a major inspection???

how on earth can the pricing of an inspection be like 30% of the total repair cost ????

i think the charge of this amount is too much, if it's a reasonable amount i can accept moreover considering the fact that a major inspection was done only in Oct 04 and also taking into the fact that 25000 was not up yet and still i brought it in for peace of mind.

guys, let me know your views. from someone who is not technically trained, i feel like asking if you don't check if the car car start then why bother even doing a servicing in the first place ???? it's like putting the cart infront of the horse right.

:furious: :furious: :furious:

thanks in advance. let me hear your views.

 

[piggyboyz]

Let's put thing in perspective here......

what workshop u talking about here ?? PML ??

If it's PML, then it's perfectly normal to have a diagnoistic check that cost $150. Their DIS machine is a few hundred thousand, of couse they have to recover their cost. Even outside workshop can charge u easily up to 80 bucks for a diagnoistic check if u decided not to let them repair. Else everyone will go and get them to check the fault and go somewhere to repair since they now know what the car gone wrong !!??

And it's also perfectly normal to have the car breaking down within three month after inspection.

anything that is electronic can fail overnight w/o sign of failure beforehand.

Pardon me for saying but then by looking at ur post, it really seems to me that u r the unreasonable one...

 

[ryan]

Let's put thing in perspective here......

what workshop u talking about here ?? PML ??

If it's PML, then it's perfectly normal to have a diagnoistic check that cost $150. Their DIS machine is a few hundred thousand, of couse they have to recover their cost. Even outside workshop can charge u easily up to 80 bucks for a diagnoistic check if u decided not to let them repair. Else everyone will go and get them to check the fault and go somewhere to repair since they now know what the car gone wrong !!??

And it's also perfectly normal to have the car breaking down within three month after inspection.

anything that is electronic can fail overnight w/o sign of failure beforehand.

Pardon me for saying but then by looking at ur post, it really seems to me that u r the unreasonable one...

piggyboyz,

That sounds quite harsh.. relax bro!

Anyway, i think i would be quite pissed if i had to send my car in to check, and kena a 150$ invoice, and nothing was fixed. The problem is the principle and not the amount.

If it was more transparent and if they bothered to notify fabsmiche that there would be a 150$ surcharge for checking such issues...things would have been definately much more different. And more than likely, she would have taken another option to this.

I always tend to question them how much it would cost etc, and not leave myself to any surprises later.

Fabsmiche: IMO, perhaps you could talk to the same CSA and tell them to fix the problem and maybe get a waiver or discount off the next servicing or something? hmm. just an idea for a win-win situation.

 

[fabsmiche]

Let's put thing in perspective here......

what workshop u talking about here ?? PML ??

If it's PML, then it's perfectly normal to have a diagnoistic check that cost $150. Their DIS machine is a few hundred thousand, of couse they have to recover their cost. Even outside workshop can charge u easily up to 80 bucks for a diagnoistic check if u decided not to let them repair. Else everyone will go and get them to check the fault and go somewhere to repair since they now know what the car gone wrong !!??

And it's also perfectly normal to have the car breaking down within three month after inspection.

anything that is electronic can fail overnight w/o sign of failure beforehand.

Pardon me for saying but then by looking at ur post, it really seems to me that u r the unreasonable one...

are you working there or something ?? Your guess of the workshop name is as good as mine.

if the inspection was done 1 year ago(or even 6 months ago), i would agree to pay the 150. Look at the financial analysis on the assumption that you get the thing fixed. Let's look at it from a principle perspective :

1) Inspection for fault 150
2) Fixing the fault 480
TOTAL : 630

- assuming that the 480 excludes the inspection cost, it's still 23%.
- assuming that the 480 INCLUDES the inspection cost, it's an amount of 31%.

Can you please tell me if it's reasonable ?????? By my standard and fact that it was in the workshop less than 5 months ago, i think it's unreasonable to levy this kind of charges. if they want to levy say <100, i think i can still accept it.

Sorry guys, i'm not a sucker neither am i to be taken for a ride. The principle is that it was IN the workshop in Oct 04, if there's a charge amount, then it should be REASONABLE, NOT 30%.

By the way, you do not levy the cost of one machine over a few customers. it's amortised a few good years and calculated based on lifetime of machine and also the usage blar blar blar.

Then I question the reason why do you even send your car to the workshop for service and maintenance ???? might as well just wait till everything goes loose and dangling before even going into the workshop ?

LAst question, i think if they look into it closely, perhaps the company has failed to even MEET the KPI (key performance indicator) that theyr'e suppose to deliver which is 25000 KM.

Thanks for making my day ! Food for thought. This is my last words on this issue. if you still think i'm unreasonable. So be it. I stand my ground.

 

[fabsmiche]

Fabsmiche: IMO, perhaps you could talk to the same CSA and tell them to fix the problem and maybe get a waiver or discount off the next servicing or something? hmm. just an idea for a win-win situation.

thanks, i've done the deal, i think it's fixed. i'll just make sure that they detail everything from now onwards.

 

[kenntona]

Two things to observe, in all fairness......

(1) The $150 Diagnostic Cost :

On an absolute basis, the rationale of PML having to recover their high fixed investment should not be a factor at all. The absolute cost should be levied on a service-rendered and value-added basis. Having said that, if the check is a thorough comprehensive process, then $150 might not be deemed exorbitant, especially if it is in-line with industrial averages (in this case plus a premium for being "authorised workshop"). So it boils down to how comprehensive the check is. Or to be relevant, how a driver would feel if a fault is detected some time after the test. This is very subjective. What is to be detected? What is depreciating fast or is a fast wear-&-tear item? How long is the period from the last inspection? Any abuse from that date? No end to this.

On a relative basis, tricky as well. Assuming that the diagnostic process is a must to detect faults. And consumer is willing to pay on an agreed price for the test. If the parts is minor, say costing $50 to fix, the diagnostic/repair ratio will be lob-sided. If the repair is major, the percentage is small. So again, it seems pointless looking at the statistics and make a judgement based on the percentage.

There will be no end to this, since information and technical knowledge and knowhow is asymmetrical, and on a product that is complex. You can champion some rights, but even as a customer, you will still be at the mercy of the workshop, especially when technical issues arise.

(2) The Courtesy Reminder :

This is the bigger contention. Workshops should remind of any diagnostic charges or inspection costs, as a courtesy. Else good faith can be taken for granted. A simple example - imagine you have to pay a token sum to sample a product. It adds commitment to the test/trial process, but it has to be spelt out. Else it will be a negative goodwill if the sampling customer is forced to pay for the sampling. Over and above that, the workshop should ask before executing any repair so that the customer can decide if he needs to follow. This is important - since, again, information is critical, but assymetrical, compounded by human judgement. For instance, the usable life of some parts can vary between mechanics to mechanics, or workshops to workshops. Even with small variances, there should still be right for consumers to decide if he or she wants to proceed with the repair.

Else, the natural tendency will be a case of "shoved-down-my-throat" sentiment on the part of the consumer.

Hope this adds a different dimension to resolve the matter.

 

[piggyboyz]

Thanks for making my day ! Food for thought. This is my last words on this issue. if you still think i'm unreasonable. So be it. I stand my ground.

Ok maybe i was harsh and i apologise for that..

The only reason i felt u were unreasonable was solely on the fact that u mention the part about u r going to bang table for something they did not done wrong.

i don work in PML, neither in any of the workshops. a lot of ppl here can verify that

Anyway like Kenntona mentioned correctly, the diagnoistic cannot be measured in terms of percentage to the total bill. The reason being that for the diagnoistic checks to be performed, the DIS or GT1 for the matter of fact, will have to communicate with the car and do a self check, calling out all the fault through the communication.

From the fault called out, the mechanic will then be able to narrow down on which area the fault comes from, may it be from the engine, transmission or the accessories...

So let's say if the fault lies in a faulty spark plug, the cost of the plug might only cost 20 bucks but then the diagnoistic still needs to run through the whole system before the fault on the plug can be determined.

Anyway, i am glad to hear that the problem have been resolved and i do agree with u that the service level at PML (assuming if we r talking about the same workshop) leaves much to be desired.

If it's of any consolation, u may want to know that ur case is not really that shitty as compared to someone who send the car in for a windscreen change and ended with with a faulty gearbox, and was made to pay about 1.5k, of which half, of it was diagnoistic and labour.. :screwedu: :screwedu:

 

[fabsmiche]

Ok maybe i was harsh and i apologise for that..

apology accepted.