Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan

Banned.
M-cars are supposed to be the ultimate expression of BMW's Ultimate Driving Machine philosophy.

Yet, the most vaunted BMW driveability technologies (excluding iDrive), like:

Active Steering
Dynamic Drive
Run Flat Tires

are not in M-cars.

Moreover, the new Z4 M does not even have SMG.

Why? Is it because these technologies make the driving `less than ultimate' or M-cars not that ultimate?
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

dun ask me..i dunno also:p
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

Then I guess we all better change to lexus liao.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
M-cars are supposed to be the ultimate expression of BMW's Ultimate Driving Machine philosophy.

Moreover, the new Z4 M does not even have SMG.

Why? Is it because these technologies make the driving `less than ultimate' or M-cars not that ultimate?

Think its because this is a transitional period between SMG II and SMG III. Hence they do not want to put something 'old' into the new M Z4 and perhaps they also discovered SMG III is not that suitable? Just making a guss.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

Brandons said:
Think its because this is a transitional period between SMG II and SMG III. Hence they do not want to put something 'old' into the new M Z4 and perhaps they also discovered SMG III is not that suitable? Just making a guss.

i believe there wont be a thing called SMG 3. they are already developing the ZSG gearbox which would debut in the new m3's. so i guess they dont want to put soemthing as 'old' as the SMG II in the Z4M. The ZSg gearbox is very similar to the DSG gearbox whre it utilises 2 clutches to pre-engage the next before engaging the next one. Liek theres 1 cludge on 1,3 and 5. and the second one would be at 2,4 and 6 SO its shifting would be quick and slick.

Also MT, most of the things u have described above like Run flats, active steering are more luxury and technical assists than performance oriented items.

For Reference:

Active Steering.
Active Steering gives drivers more precise handling and tracking: this ensures that their automobiles are more mobile and agile even on twisting roads. A planetary gear is integrated with the steering column; depending on the situation, the feature varies the angle of steering determined by the user at the wheel (superimposed steering).
It increases the steering angle at lower and mid-range speeds; by contrast, at higher speeds (e.g. on motorways), the steering angle is reduced. When parking, the active steering feature makes it easier to manoeuvre by amplifying the movements of the steering wheel.

Dynamic Drive.
Dynamic Drive is an active suspension control system offering an exceptionally high standard of lateral dynamic stability (body stability). This is provided by active anti-roll bars on the front and rear axles - active because rotating hydraulic elements referred to as actuators are integrated in the mechanical anti-roll bars.
Incorporating two electronic pressure control valves, these actuators build up independent stability forces on the front and rear axle, minimising body sway when taking a bend. Dynamic Drive thus ensures supreme agility at all speeds, optimum steering and well-balanced load change behaviour.
These advantages are particularly beneficial to the passengers in the back seat: the reduction of roll motion to an almost imperceptible level makes it much easier and more pleasant to read or work when seated in the rear.
The driver, in turn, benefits in particular from the new standard of steering precision provided by Dynamic Drive, especially in rapid steering manoeuvres.

These 2 dont enhance BUT assist the driver more in luxury cars. In sports cars like the M cars, the driver is probably experienced and dont need these assists as they are experienced as it is and these technologies will only hinder them further than to help them.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
Moreover, the new Z4 M does not even have SMG.

bcos dont have enough space to fit the SMG box after they drop the S54 under the hoot ...
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

so I guess, putting Active Steering and Dynamic Drive in .... really detracts from the Ultimate Driving machine philosophy.

Does that mean all enthusiastic drivers who bought the 5-series, who are good enough not to need AS and DD, kenna con by marketing hype? (exceptions - those who bought the 2004 Asian Aerospace versions 520, lucky buggers, no AS)

About the Lexus digs.... I'm not a Lexus freak. I'm brand agnostic, but so happens that this year, it's the turning point of Lexus against BMW, just because they focus on this for 8 years already. Always nice that the King is being challenged. Relish the golden age, not dig at it.

If the Honda SH-AWD type of Legend do well, I also cheer, but that car engine is down on the 3.5L lexus engine, the car is fugly, so .... no cheers from me.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

In daily driving context, I feel that active steering is more pronounced as a convenience in low speed situations (e.g U-turn and parking).

For sportier drive, it may indeed be a hinderance considering that it varies the amplification of the steering - what about sudden corrections to counter a loss of traction?

The ZSG gearbox looks good - has it been officially revealled with the E92 coupe already?

my 2 cents.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
so I guess, putting Active Steering and Dynamic Drive in .... really detracts from the Ultimate Driving machine philosophy.

Does that mean all enthusiastic drivers who bought the 5-series, who are good enough not to need AS and DD, kenna con by marketing hype? (exceptions - those who bought the 2004 Asian Aerospace versions 520, lucky buggers, no AS)

About the Lexus digs.... I'm not a Lexus freak. I'm brand agnostic, but so happens that this year, it's the turning point of Lexus against BMW, just because they focus on this for 8 years already. Always nice that the King is being challenged. Relish the golden age, not dig at it.

If the Honda SH-AWD type of Legend do well, I also cheer, but that car engine is down on the 3.5L lexus engine, the car is fugly, so .... no cheers from me.

Active steering is to allow drivers to fiddle less with the steering wheel when turning and Dynamic drive is more to eliminate the backroll for backseat passengers. When ppl buy an ///M, they neither need the AS to help them as they need to communicate with the road directly nor do they need dynamic drive to make the backseat apssenger comfortable. These are driver oriented cars and not cars that cater to the luxury market.

Whether those who got con by marketing hype, its always up to the buyer to do their homework. If u get conned by marketing hype, then u cant really blame the marketing ppl as their job is to sell and market. thats the viscious world of dynamic business today.

Apparently, the ZSG looks good but its not worthy to comment on it untill the real thing is out. Up to date, the Audi DSG gets my vote hands down. I shall se hwo the ZSg fares in time to come. If it lives up to its hype, the new 335i with 306hp will be mine with the Zsg gearbox as my 2nd car. Now thats if PML dont fark up the pricing.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

elmariachi said:
Active steering is to allow drivers to fiddle less with the steering wheel when turning and Dynamic drive is more to eliminate the backroll for backseat passengers. When ppl buy an ///M, they neither need the AS to help them as they need to communicate with the road directly nor do they need dynamic drive to make the backseat apssenger comfortable. These are driver oriented cars and not cars that cater to the luxury market.

Whether those who got con by marketing hype, its always up to the buyer to do their homework. If u get conned by marketing hype, then u cant really blame the marketing ppl as their job is to sell and market. thats the viscious world of dynamic business today.

Apparently, the ZSG looks good but its not worthy to comment on it untill the real thing is out. Up to date, the Audi DSG gets my vote hands down. I shall se hwo the ZSg fares in time to come. If it lives up to its hype, the new 335i with 306hp will be mine with the Zsg gearbox as my 2nd car. Now thats if PML dont fark up the pricing.
if ZSG on BMW 530, I will buy 530 indent model, take out the AS and DD. In 2 years. This one is chop chop confirmed (subject always to changing market conditions and provided I still got a paycheck sufficient to pay, and also that cheaper better value cars do not have twin clutch transmission options).
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
if ZSG on BMW 530, I will buy 530 indent model, take out the AS and DD. In 2 years. This one is chop chop confirmed (subject always to changing market conditions and provided I still got a paycheck sufficient to pay, and also that cheaper better value cars do not have twin clutch transmission options).

i believe AS is standard for singapore market. DD is option. If u indent the bugger, u got yourself a great tracking car with a few mods.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

screw the mods. I dun mod anymore. I love stock. I respect the engineers enough for stock. If I need more performance I'll buy the M. Not to say I can afford M, but I'm too poor to afford mods and the complications which come with it.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
screw the mods. I dun mod anymore. I love stock. I respect the engineers enough for stock. If I need more performance I'll buy the M. Not to say I can afford M, but I'm too poor to afford mods and the complications which come with it.

by minor mods, i meant rims and better tyres. if u dont want to, its still good. Better is still better than good if u know what i mean.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

why would the absence or presence of AS make it difficult to find wheels and tyres for the car?
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

michaeltan said:
why would the absence or presence of AS make it difficult to find wheels and tyres for the car?

it wouldnt. whoever told u it would be a problem? that guy ought to get shot.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

elmariachi said:
by minor mods, i meant rims and better tyres. if u dont want to, its still good. Better is still better than good if u know what i mean.

OT...

Went to the new Siam Paragon in BKK. They have a

1. Ferrari Showroom
2. Lamborghini Showroom
3. Porsche Showroom
4. BMW Showroom
5. Maserati Showroom

all side by side :yummie: :yummie:

Love the peral white Gransport standing right in front of the pack :yummie: :yummie:
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

Brandons said:
OT...

Went to the new Siam Paragon in BKK. They have a

1. Ferrari Showroom
2. Lamborghini Showroom
3. Porsche Showroom
4. BMW Showroom
5. Maserati Showroom

all side by side :yummie: :yummie:

Love the peral white Gransport standing right in front of the pack :yummie: :yummie:

look out for the white pinnafarina edition soon! hehehe.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

Hi Michael,

Both active steering and dynamic drive are designed to enhance the driving experience in daily use on regular roads (where these cars spend 99% of their time). In the case of AS, it's at the expense of steering feel (at least for the E60).

M cars are tuned to be enthusiast cars that will give great performance on both regular road and track driving, they are also priced that way, you could say they have no peers in that particular market segment. AMG and others are trying, but to be honest are not even close. We're talking performace drivabliity + everyday usability in a complete package.

In an M car, there should be no compromise in terms of steering feel for example, so there's no active steering in the M5 or M6.

Dynamic drive is a technology that tries to overcome the compromise between ride quality and the amount of body roll during cornering. For regular road driving, it's great as you get almost zero body roll without having to resort to harder shocks and springs. But it has it's limitations and negatives, especially in oversteering situations as it affects the balance of the car on the limit, making it harder to recover. For the M5/M6, BMW choose to go with adaptive dampeners which is the better choice for a high performace car.

Ultimately it's all about compromise, BMW has to weigh the price vs performace considerations for all their models targeted at different market segments. Their philosophy is to build the Ultimate Driving Machine at every level, no matter if you're driving a 120i, 318i, 530i, M6 etc.

So for example, in the market segment of the executive saloon (similar price point and spec), if we compare a Lexus GS, Merc E, 5 series, Audi A6 etc. you will find that the 5 series cannot be beaten for outright drivability, chassis balance and cornering performace. It will be same for the small executive saloons eg, 3 series, Lexus IS, Merc C etc. In fact look at every car segment except for perhaps super cars, you'll find that BMW indeed builds the UDM when compared to its peers. It may not be the cheapest, or most powerful, but you can bet it will always deliver the best handling and most rewarding drive.
 
Re: Why do M-Cars not include the most hyped BMW technologies?

eggz, i must say that your post is the clearest post about BMW in a long time.

In short, screw everything else, but its handling and driveability is ultimate.

The mistake most BMW-philiacs make most of the time, is that they try to get the BMW to match others in everything else they do - eg. fancy pitting the 5-series standard equipment against the GS! Or the build quality of a BMW against Toyota's best efforts. Or pit the ride of a 7-series against the supreme S-Class with ABC.

But you put it most clearly. BMWs give you the best handling and most rewarding drive - anything else is a bonus, or incidental, but it's the drive which counts for BMW.
 

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