Thinking of the 523i

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

The reason why the 5-series only has 4 stars because it has a rigid body to be able to take higher impact. the NCAP rating only test at 50 odd km/h and most cars with 5 stars have soft body to absorb the impact, in order to obtain 5 stars. However at higher speed, there are cases where the 5 stars car are not able to protect the passenagers at all.

to build upon this, read http://forums.e60.net/index.php?showtopic=23901
the m5 crashed really bad. But look at the internal structure and it is still retained.

another example was in malaysia where a 1 or more tonne concrete block dropped on a 520i killing the driver instantly BUT the passenger survived due the the Z-beam that didnt snap on his side due to constrcution engineering. if it had been a conventional design, the passenger himself would have died together.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

The reason why the 5-series only has 4 stars because it has a rigid body to be able to take higher impact. the NCAP rating only test at 50 odd km/h and most cars with 5 stars have soft body to absorb the impact, in order to obtain 5 stars. However at higher speed, there are cases where the 5 stars car are not able to protect the passenagers at all.

Where'd you get that info.

details here of the 4-star NCAP issue for E60, direct from source:

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=4&id2=208

The dummy had high load at chest, and at the comparatively low speeds you mentioned, danger of getting hurt anyway.

Regarding rigid bodies, a rigid body has the same effect as putting an egg in a safe and then crashing the safe. The trick is crumpling and then secondary crumpling. Not so much `rigid body'.

 

[IS200]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

The reason why the 5-series only has 4 stars because it has a rigid body to be able to take higher impact. the NCAP rating only test at 50 odd km/h and most cars with 5 stars have soft body to absorb the impact, in order to obtain 5 stars. However at higher speed, there are cases where the 5 stars car are not able to protect the passenagers at all.

Not true.

In the AA NCAP crash test reports, cars like the Volvo S40 have got very strong and rigid bodies and yet got 5 stars.
Quote from the NCAP report:
The S40 has a very strong and stable passenger safety cage. It achieved five stars after Euro NCAP allowed a pole impact test, following modification to the door pillar trim fixings. In the first test, the curtain airbag interacted with the trim as it deployed.

Another example is the Audi A6. Also 5-stars.
Quote from the NCAP report:
The body shell of the A6 is extremely strong and the stable passenger cell provides good protection fo the adult occupants, the car achieving the Euro NCAP five star rating.

The rest on A6 test can be found in this link: http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/n...model=A6&year=2004&publicationDate=2004-11-01

Similar to the Volvo S40 crash picture, take a look at the A6's front wheels.
Compare that against the E60.

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

I agree with IS200.

As mentioned before, in another form, in a now locked thread, BMW, Merc, Lexus, Audi fanboys, must restrain themselves from stretching the truth and die die put BMW in a great light in certain areas which they are not really that hot.

Don't forget. BMW's excel at driveability - that is their main optimization. To stretch other things into BMW's aura, without justifiction, does injustice to the credibility of this forum, and the BMW marque indirectly.

Stretching the E60's NCAP 4-star to make it seem better than 5-star, is really a little weird.

 

[bmwF1]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

Not true.

In the AA NCAP crash test reports, cars like the Volvo S40 have got very strong and rigid bodies and yet got 5 stars.
Quote from the NCAP report:
The S40 has a very strong and stable passenger safety cage. It achieved five stars after Euro NCAP allowed a pole impact test, following modification to the door pillar trim fixings. In the first test, the curtain airbag interacted with the trim as it deployed.

Another example is the Audi A6. Also 5-stars.
Quote from the NCAP report:
The body shell of the A6 is extremely strong and the stable passenger cell provides good protection fo the adult occupants, the car achieving the Euro NCAP five star rating.

The rest on A6 test can be found in this link: http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/n...model=A6&year=2004&publicationDate=2004-11-01

Similar to the Volvo S40 crash picture, take a look at the A6's front wheels.
Compare that against the E60.

we are not comparing with any car here.

what i am saying is that the frontal impact is at about 55km/h which is quite slow. The 5 series has a very strong engine bay which is the crumple zone of the car, there is doesn't crumple as much as some other 5-stars cars. therefore it doesn't absorb that much impact in a 55km/h test and the passenger suffers a bit.

however in a higher speed impact, the stronger engine bay is going to save the life of the passenger. There are incidents where 5-stars rated car suffers badly in a high speed crash. i m not saying that volvo or audi is not strong but you must know some car manufacturer set up their car to pass the test but not excel in real life. I m not defending the 5 series so do not start any arguement here.

 

[marclees]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

... The 5 series has a very strong engine bay which is the crumple zone of the car, there is doesn't crumple as much as some other 5-stars cars. therefore it doesn't absorb that much impact in a 55km/h test and the passenger suffers a bit.

however in a higher speed impact, the stronger engine bay is going to save the life of the passenger. There are incidents where 5-stars rated car suffers badly in a high speed crash....

And where is the source of your information ? Credibility means that one should be able to substantiate one's remark , especially when what is suggested tantamounts to a statement of fact.
(You are raising credibility issues on the NSCAP testing results , so perhaps it would be apt if you can produce your evidence or is it just mere ficition ??)

What IS200 and MichealTan say are , in my opinion accurate .

 

[IS200]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

The reason why the 5-series only has 4 stars because it has a rigid body to be able to take higher impact. the NCAP rating only test at 50 odd km/h and most cars with 5 stars have soft body to absorb the impact, in order to obtain 5 stars. However at higher speed, there are cases where the 5 stars car are not able to protect the passenagers at all.

we are not comparing with any car here.

what i am saying is that the frontal impact is at about 55km/h which is quite slow. The 5 series has a very strong engine bay which is the crumple zone of the car, there is doesn't crumple as much as some other 5-stars cars. therefore it doesn't absorb that much impact in a 55km/h test and the passenger suffers a bit.

however in a higher speed impact, the stronger engine bay is going to save the life of the passenger. There are incidents where 5-stars rated car suffers badly in a high speed crash. i m not saying that volvo or audi is not strong but you must know some car manufacturer set up their car to pass the test but not excel in real life. I m not defending the 5 series so do not start any arguement here.

Not true again.

In your earlier post, you mentioned about the E60's rigid body.
And I showed you, quoting the AA NCAP crash test reports, why your postulation was incorrect.

Now in your follow-up post, you changed it to the E60's engine bay.

But again, if you base it on the NCAP reports, it had cited a very-to-extremely strong body for cars like the E60, Volvo S40 and Audi A6 alike. You will also note that NCAP does not give simlar citations for most cars - only the real tough ones.

If you claim that the E60's engine bay is stronger than the Volvo or Audi, or for that matter Saab 9-5 (which happens to be a 5-star too), please prove it with specific references. Otherwise, I would take it as conjecture.

In any case, if you look again at the crash photos of the E60, S40 and A6, it is pretty obvious that the engine bay of the BMW is not as strong or rigid (as you claim), compared to the Audi or Volvo - it having deformed more than the other German and Swede car ... even crumpling beyond the front wheels. I don't see how your argument (on the E60 having a stronger engine bay) can be accepted as technically sound.

Look, I am not trying to pick an argument here. I am a (new) E60 523i owner too. You bet I am disappointed after reading the NCAP crash test reports. I too wish that BMW can get a 5-star rating for its E60 ... maybe perhaps the next time. But this time round, I would concede to the fact that BMW has got plenty of room to improve on its driver and passenger safety. If Merc, Lexus, Volvo, Saab and others can get 5-star rating, I don't see why BMW should even struggle to attain the same.

The fact remains that the E60 is globally rated NCAP 4-Star and I don't see any point why we should even be arguing in this forum about that fact, or trying to provide our own reasons why not.

 

[bmwF1]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

Not true again.

In your earlier post, you mentioned about the E60's rigid body.
And I showed you, quoting the AA NCAP crash test reports, why your postulation was incorrect.

Now in your follow-up post, you changed it to the E60's engine bay.

But again, if you base it on the NCAP reports, it had cited a very-to-extremely strong body for cars like the E60, Volvo S40 and Audi A6 alike. You will also note that NCAP does not give simlar citations for most cars - only the real tough ones.

If you claim that the E60's engine bay is stronger than the Volvo or Audi, or for that matter Saab 9-5 (which happens to be a 5-star too), please prove it with specific references. Otherwise, I would take it as conjecture.

In any case, if you look again at the crash photos of the E60, S40 and A6, it is pretty obvious that the engine bay of the BMW is not as strong or rigid (as you claim), compared to the Audi or Volvo - it having deformed more than the other German and Swede car ... even crumpling beyond the front wheels. I don't see how your argument (on the E60 having a stronger engine bay) can be accepted as technically sound.

Look, I am not trying to pick an argument here. I am a (new) E60 523i owner too. You bet I am disappointed after reading the NCAP crash test reports. I too wish that BMW can get a 5-star rating for its E60 ... maybe perhaps the next time. But this time round, I would concede to the fact that BMW has got plenty of room to improve on its driver and passenger safety. If Merc, Lexus, Volvo, Saab and others can get 5-star rating, I don't see why BMW should even struggle to attain the same.

The fact remains that the E60 is globally rated NCAP 4-Star and I don't see any point why we should even be arguing in this forum about that fact, or trying to provide our own reasons why not.

haha yes yes cool it lah

I am not going to argue with you all cause, yes i lack concrete evidents because whatever i said was based on what i read somewhere in a magazine which i din usually buy. and yes i forgot where i read it. but dun you find it true?

anyway i din change what i said. the car body includes the passenger cell, engine bay and boot.

 

[gadaffi]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

bmwF1, u got the ULTIMATE DRIVING MACHINE.....

 

[IS200]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

OK peace man bmwF1.

I just hope that we can all stay above board in the forum discussions and not be over zealous over the BMW brand and start running down other makes which may have stronger points, or become overly protective, or defensive, about our brand of car - especially if they can be factually proven otherwise.

Yes I agree that this is a BMW forum and therefore it will (and should) maintain a certain slant in focus on topics discussed. But lest we forget, some of us here do own other marques too, in addition to a BMW.

 

[moreau]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

sorry ar OT a bit.does alphine white look ugly on the 5?cos i seldom see 1 on the road.also issit ez to sell off?

 

[Nutty Professor]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

no le...look quite nice....saw one the other day, swee swee ah......white with M5 rims.....and side mirrors....wa lau...steam....

 

[moreau]

Re: Thinking of the 523i

wat u guys think of the second hand cars which pml sells?those are not demo cars,went to view them jus now.quite impressive.a dec'05 525 done with 7000km costs 182800.wats ur take on this?and also issit 'normal' for moisture to acculate inside the headlamps of the 5?