Preserving Gloss on Paintwork

TripleX

Well-Known Member
Hi. No Amazing Glaze please. I have had bad experience with them, probably they use the polishing machine to do the job. I have been told that BMW paint jobs are sensitive and those guys who use those rotating polishing machines will eventually scratch your paintwork leaving what the polishers call "holagrams" which are easily seen when you park in direct sunlight.

There are quite a few joints here specialising in handjobs (eh, I mean hand polishing jobs). Most expensive is Car Works (they charge as much as 2900.00 annually) But in our very fickle Singapore climate, your wax and money will just be washed away. A good guy to try will be Bronze Carman. The boss, Russell was formerly from PML. His charges are fair, but he is located at Toh Tuck Ctr which is off the way for most. One advantage of using his services is that he can "enlighten" you on the finer engineering points of your Bimmer whilst his men wax your car.
 
I went to ToughSeal,quite ok but nt up to my expectation. Simple plain water car wash, leave the paint surface 'streak feeling'. I tot wif toughseal the surface of the paint will always feel waxy n glossy. Seem like the selant is only a very thin layer. Tot of gng back to coat another layer(to see if they can make it super shine n glossy)
I called up Amazing Glazing last week to enquire the difference between the 2. AG claim tat they r the only selant tested n proven! The rest r only factory tested n only provide warranty on the factory claim. Tot AG r more Pro n expertise especially wif Bimmer cos BMW cars r subcontracted to them for car care programes. Disappointed to wat TripleX had mentioned.I was thinking to go to them next month for selant protection but nw.... got to tink twice :thinking:
 
Hi Razor,

I've contemplated and am just as confused by the sheer number of grooming houses as well as claims.

When I took over the car from the first owner, I've noticed quite a bit of swirl marks (spider web/halograms, etc) as well as almost-permanent water-mark outlines - under sunlight/bright lights. These are circular micro scratches that can be caused by both rotary machine polishers as well as hand polishes. As long as the car is not properly cleaned, I reckon there will be micro particles that scratches the surface.

Rotary machines amplify the effects because of the thousands of rotations per minute as well as the higher chance of applying more pressure than a mere hand polish would give.. There's also the possibility that the rotary pads are reused frequently, so dirt gets embedded in the pads.

Despite consistent polishing/waxing attempted, these blemishes are however difficult to rid of through hand polishing alone as there's not enough pressure. I would certainly look for an accomplished polisher to strip the wax and polish/cut these blemishes away before covering up with wax/sealant. Thus, the indication of how good a groomer is, could perhaps be measured by how much care they take to regain the "new paint" condition, before proceeding with layers of wax/sealants.

Otherwise, the potential of shine may not be as good if a sealant is merely coated on top of the otherwise, imperfect surface.

One thing I would like to find out is, how durable these sealants are. Based on past literature on the internet, car shine doesn't actually last very long - weeks at most. Given our climate, it may just take days for a new coat of wax to be covered in a fine layer of soot. Sealants (correct me if I'm wrong) are supposed to protect the paint and retain the gloss somewhat. So the durability of the sealant inevitably determines how long the gloss beneath lasts.

Perhaps there are 2 classifications of "sealants".
1) Professional treatment that provides a hard (possibly synthetic) coating which lasts for months. e.g. fresh out of factory?
2) Over the counter sealant products. Think of them as slightly more durable waxes that are applied by hand/machine.

If there's indeed such a differentiation, I reckon most of the cheaper grooming centres/mobile grooming, etc belong to the latter category that do not last very long at all. Perhaps a month.

My 2 cents,
Alvin.
 
Hi All,

Many thanks for the advice. Only reaffirms the impression that it's a very subjective matter and will stick with water wash for now. In the meantime, will check out TripleX's suggestion at Toh Tuck Centre. Am glad you qualified the bit about the handjob though. Otherwise, might end up asking for some "extra" not on their list of services. :thinking:

Also thanks to Alvin666 and Puny for the detailed descriptions on the various types of polishings. Though bit sad to hear that the results weren't quite up to the marketing.

It seems that PML is offering some Professional Car Care (http://www.pml.com.sg/bmw/aftersales/carcare2.html). Dunno if anybody's tried it and if it's any good. As always, wonderful marketing promising the restoration of showroom shine and the blah, but haven't a clue about the results.

Any brothers (and sister's) out there had any experience with these?
 
Hi, Razor
U may want to try "Permagard" located at 224 Telok Kurau Rd #01-04 UNI Bldg Tel: 63421393.
www.permagard.com.sg

They claimed that the final coat covers most of existing scrap marks and deepen color to give the shiny gloss with a 2years warranty. No need to repolish frequently like waxing for ard 2years, just normal wash to your car will restore the original shine.
But it is quite costly though, with 1 free retreatment after 1st year.

Knew this lobang as my fren done up his new 5.

I'm not related to Permagard but just sharing my view here.
 
Hi Razor. You can call Russell at 94577979. They actually do strip your paint job of old waxes (or so we think) before re-applying. These guys do not wax in circular motion. Apparently there is a new recommendation that waxes are applied small areas of roughly 1 - 2 sq ft at each time, either front to back or sideways. When you buff off, you go in the perpendicular direction, this preventing swirl marks.

Also heard 3m has developed a special coating that actually covers up minor scratch marks. Haven't tried it myself. I have seen it on the shelves of Handifix but just can't seem to remember the exact name.

To rid your ride of watewr marks, you will probably have to send it to the painters. They will know what to do, but I don't advise this as it actually thins your paintwork.

Anyway, 99% of cars in SIN are experiencing the same sort of scratch, watermark or even bird droppinng problems, so my advise is not to waste too much time and money on trying to rid your ride of minor irritants. I know its rather painful when you see something like this happen to your new car or new paintwork, but you'll get over it. Just do the necessary preventive maintenance and go for regular waxing and that should be enough.

By the way; if yours is a new car, wax it weekly for at least 2 months. I was told of this by a spraypainter, tried it and my Japanese car's shine lasted till the day I scrapped it. All I needed to do was wash the car regularly and wax once in a couple of months (DIY) It really works.
 
All the grooming centres will carry their own range of pdts and market them as superior technology. I think TripleX said it right. WAsh your car regularly, and wax them once a fortnight or something. Just make sure u wash yourself, or go to a good one which doesnt use the same piece of cloth for all the cars. I prefer DIY cos i can be more kiasu.

This is how i see it... unless your paint is already stripped of a good amount of gloss or has been oxidised too much already, then no need to do polishing, esp for black cars (as i've been told by a polisher). Polishing actually cuts away a very thin layer...while wax is a protective layer. So if your paint is still glossy, wash well, and use a wax. It can be more satisfying. AS for wat brand of car wax, people here recommend Autogylm or Zaino.
 
Wow!!! Thanks to all for the overwhelmingly detailed advice that I've been receiving.

As mentioned previously, I'm currently on a DIY regime because, like oneHeadlight, I am kiasu as well. Been considering waxing my Bimmer but seem to recall somewhere in the maintenance manual to avoid some kinds of wax as it actually erodes the paintwork rather than preserving it. Any thoughts?

It seems that the general consensus is to wax the car one a week while it's new. I'll have to consider this very seriously ... :)
 
Razor said:
Wow!!! Thanks to all for the overwhelmingly detailed advice that I've been receiving.

As mentioned previously, I'm currently on a DIY regime because, like oneHeadlight, I am kiasu as well. Been considering waxing my Bimmer but seem to recall somewhere in the maintenance manual to avoid some kinds of wax as it actually erodes the paintwork rather than preserving it. Any thoughts?

It seems that the general consensus is to wax the car one a week while it's new. I'll have to consider this very seriously ... :)
Hi Razor,

As far as I know, any product with polishing,cleaning,"cutting",swirl/scratch removal properties are abrasive and will strip wax and to a certain extent, remove a thin (micro) layer of paint if applied with enough pressure/repetitions.

The instructions on the back of the bottles usually give a good indication of whether a wax is free of cleaners or not. Almost any product with deep "cleaning" capabilities will most certainly contain polishers.

e.g.1 "removes fine swirls and leaves a deep lasting shine" (mild abrasive)
e.g.2 "Deep cleans and removes scratches to restore show room paint condition" (strong abrasive)

The various products on the market all contain varying degrees of wax vs polishing vs cleaning concentrations - even from the same brand.

If your paint condition is in pristine condition, and you just want a good shine, then try to go for pure waxes or glazes that do not contain polishers.

Some glazes HAVE swirl/scratch hiding properties without abrasive substances. They reduce the visibility of scratches by filling in and smoothing the edges of the lines so they are harder to notice at most angles.

I reckon waxing once a week would be more than sufficient with ocassional mild cleaners/polishes perhaps once a month or thereabouts. A good test of how long the wax/sealants last would be to pour/spray water onto an area to see how well the water beads. :)

Cheers,
Alvin.
 
alvin, how long do you on ave spend on 1 waxing session with your car? and do you sweat much? hehehe

.... qn from a lazy bum
 
Racebred said:
alvin, how long do you on ave spend on 1 waxing session with your car? and do you sweat much? hehehe

.... qn from a lazy bum
Hahahaa... I don't sweat much, but I get a much needed workout!!... I think I lost 1kg after 2 consecutive weeks of such sessions and generally better health. It actually beats unmotivated workouts that are tiresome and less productive!

A thorough wash + wax = 3 hrs with short breaks in between. hehee.. I really need to hasten my pace and I guess this comes with experience gained with more sessions!
 
3hrs!!!

i think i'll just look for a paint sealant or those glaze thing in the other thread. 1 year no need to wash car.
 
Thanks for the advice! Seems that I'm learning something new everyday.

As I'm still basking in the glow of my newfound love, like Alvin, I don't mind spending time hunching over it on my weekends cleaning it. ;)

Say, Alvin, is there a brand of wax that you can recommend?

Thanks!!!
 
Hi Razor,

I've only tried 4 types of waxes/polishes so far and haven't tried any of the more popular packages (e.g. Zaino, Klasse..)

I'm currently using this setup:

1. Meguire's #7. (Show Room Glaze) (Non-abrasive)
2. Soft99 Paste (solid wax) (Non-abrasive)

(For cleaning/polishing, I use Zymol Cleaner Wax. Bought it and didn't want it to go to waste!)

#7 Show Room Glaze is a pretty good glaze, but doesn't last long and it's always recommended as a pre-wax coating to improve the gloss. You just apply evenly and buff off (no waiting time needed).

For Soft99 range of products, I've read in Autopia.org (detailing forum) that it has above average water/beading durability and a good enough shine. So far, it's been 2 weeks+ and the car maintains bulk of the gloss after washing. Cheap too! ($15)

Have fun!
Alvin.
 
Racebred said:
3hrs!!!

i think i'll just look for a paint sealant or those glaze thing in the other thread. 1 year no need to wash car.

Hi RB,

I think we have to wash no matter what. :( Coz the dirt/soot will definitely adhere to the surface!!

The "easy" way out to having a clean car that's easily accomplished, is to use those garden pressurized bottles (1.5-2 litres) that allow you to fill with plain water, then pump to fill it with pressure. Pressing the tigger then emits a small jet of water from the nozzle.... (like Super-Soaker toys)

Spray all around first, then section by section, just spray and use your palm to "wipe" the surface, letting the water stream as you wipe. You can feel the layer of dirt and apply lesser pressure accordingly so you can minimise the harm on the paint work. When using a cloth, we tend to just swipe and inevitably, the dirt gets carried along. You need to fill the bottle 5-6 times to cover the entire body. (15-30 min job)

IF you live in a landed property, or your estate has a water point which allows hosing, then it's easier to hose of course! Hose it down well, then with reduced flow rate, do the same wiping thingy around sections of the car. This is also the easiest way to molest the car without getting wierd stares from passerbys.

I find that without these methods above, using a pail + sponge can actually be more tedious to clean because you have limited water flow to rinse the dirt off the surface.. (without constant rinsing, the dirt gets pushed around) Also, dipping the sponge in the same pail soaks up the same dirt somehow unless you rinse the sponge after every wipe (tedious). Perhaps I'm too kiasu..
 
thanks pal. the reason why i got a silver car is coz i hate to wash my car, or even wax it. heheheh
 
I use Zaino on my new MINI.

I do not work for them but i can say that after 4 years of using an assortment of car cleaning products, I will definitely say that Zaino is the best i've ever used.

Shines like crazy and extremely easy to apply and remove. And even when the waxy finish is gone after a couple of rain showers, the paintwork still shines and beads for weeks.

Not abrasive at all, no buffing at all. Just apply and wipe off.

Zaino is ace.
 

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