KW-1 vs PSS

[Racebred]

If you're not going to track, the only reason why you'd want non-damping-adjustable coilovers is for ride height adjustments.

If you'd want to adjust ride heights more frequently, KW is more friendly, easier to adjust.

I'm not sure how much KW1 and PSS cost in relation to Sachs. But if the price premium is not too great then go ahead. For the E46 platform, there's no "coilover"setup for the rears, so it'll just be a simple spring plus height-adjustable shock.

If you're not going to the track often, then maybe you dont have to spend the money on coilovers. Just a simpler shock/spring/ARB upgrade will do. The money you save from not getting a coilover can probably get you an ARB. And the total effects of that will be even better than just a set of coilovers only, for street spplications.

 

[DreamDriver]

Actually my priorities are handling, followed rather closely by comfort. I know these are conflicting, but I feel that KW-1 has got a nice compromise between the two. Height adjustability is nice-to-have but I'll probably tweak it once or twice, then stay with a particular height once I'm comfortable with it.

I know Sachs scores in the comfort department, but it's not so great handling-wise. I've thought about Eibach+Bilstein, but I'm not sure what marginal improvement in handling (if any) and what compromise in comfort I might face compared to Sachs. There's also Eibach+stock-shocks, as per your previous suggestion, but I seriously doubt I'll be happy with the handling.

Adding ARB to one of the above, say, Sachs, is an interesting idea, but what will it do to comfort? How would you rate the effect of adding ARB compared to, say, swapping 16" wheels for 18" ones? Unless I have a chance to sit in someone's car with such a setup, I'm unwilling to risk it. So far nobody has answered my earlier call for owners of Eibach+Bilstein setup.

In terms of cost, this is what I know: KW-1 and PSS are probably double (or more) that of Sachs; Eibach+Bilstein is slightly cheaper than Sachs; Sachs/Eibach+Bilstein with ARB will approach that of coilovers (maybe a few hundreds less).

Now that I've got a budget for coilovers, all the above options are viable for me. That said, I still want to spend my money correctly and get the setup that I want for the least.

 

[Racebred]

ARB is one of the few miracle mods that doesnt have a downside (unless pushed to the limit at the track, so it applies in everyday driving). Comfort and performance are always compromising each other, but ARB never affects comfort while giving you improved handling, unlike low profile tyres. think about it. it's the perfect mod.

I think KW1's factory damping setting is set rather soft. (about the halfway point of KW2's adjustment spectrum) I would think the damping rate is just about sach's there.

If I were you, i'll jump into one of the many sach perf-equipped e46 in the forum, and try see if you like it or not. This is the least you should do before committing your money. If you think it's still too soft, or handling not right up your expectations, you're better off getting KW2 or PSS9. then probably some time later, plonk some money down on an ARB.

But pls keep an eye out for shocks replacement cost. Coilover replacement is definitely going to be more expensive than say a bilstein shock.

Also, for those who are on Sach Perf kit, what do you do when your shocks wear out? buy back the original part number? Or spend less on a monroe, kw, or bilstein shock? in the end, it's still a mix and match setup. nothing wrong, but would you be better off buying a mix and match setup from day 1?

There are too many combinations, and unless you are those who dont mind being the pioneer and trying it out, you'll just have to go the well-trodden path; the conservative approach usually cost more.

 

[DreamDriver]

ARB is one of the few miracle mods that doesnt have a downside (unless pushed to the limit at the track, so it applies in everyday driving). Comfort and performance are always compromising each other, but ARB never affects comfort while giving you improved handling, unlike low profile tyres. think about it. it's the perfect mod.

Knowing how ARB works, how is this possible? I mean, there has to be *some* effect when you try to stiffen the links between your axles, which are made independent in the first place for comfort's sake?

Maybe the effect is not akin to low profile tyres, but what about the degree?

I think KW1's factory damping setting is set rather soft. (about the halfway point of KW2's adjustment spectrum) I would think the damping rate is just about sach's there.

If this is true, what might be the other factors (other than height-adjustability) that allows KW-1 to command such a premium? How much does the different spring rate and coilover construction contribute to better handling compared to difference in damping rates?

But pls keep an eye out for shocks replacement cost. Coilover replacement is definitely going to be more expensive than say a bilstein shock.[\quote]

Good point. I remember you asking around about KW damper reconditioning services; any luck?

Also, would replacement still be a consideration if I'm reasonably sure that I'm going to keep my car for another two years -- at most three -- and will clock around 40-60,000km of street mileage in that time?

There are too many combinations, and unless you are those who dont mind being the pioneer and trying it out, you'll just have to go the well-trodden path; the conservative approach usually cost more.

I think you can tell that I'm trying to avoid being a pioneer, hehe..

 

[DC3]

Having read and listened to Racebred's suggetions on the anti-roll bars. I changed only the ARBs to a thicker ACS set, leaving stock springs/shocks and 16in rims and tyres. Hence I venture my 2 cents worth.

Compared to stock, there is a very definite improvement in the handling. Turn-in is more instantaneous and body roll is minimal during long fast corners. Ride comfort is unaffected unless traversing humps over 1 wheel. Apparently the lack of body roll may encourage a foolhardy driver to go beyond the grip limits of his tyres. And lastly... in my case, a creaking sound over large humps due to harder teflon bushings.

 

[DreamDriver]

Having read and listened to Racebred's suggetions on the anti-roll bars. I changed only the ARBs to a thicker ACS set, leaving stock springs/shocks and 16in rims and tyres. Hence I venture my 2 cents worth.

Thanks! Your setup is as neutral as one gets when it comes to isolating the effects of ARB alone! Is yours a E46, 4-door, 6-cylinder? If so, your inputs are definitely rated highly in terms of relevance to me.

Now, my question is: are you stopping at ARB change, or are suspension upgrades and/or wheel upsizes to follow? If stopping, why?

RB: How do you rate KW sports suspension against Sachs and Eibach+Bilstein?

 

[piggyboyz]

Somehow, it's quite difficult to convince ppl to believe that the least is sometime the best....

I went through the motion some years back looking for a better handling car and went from bigger rims, changine suspension, struct bar but really, IMHO, all the don add up to a simple mod - ARB...

ARB as the name implied, reduces roll. In straight line driving, the bar is under minimal torsion, and hence will have almost no effect on daily driving though those sensitive butt fella will tell u that there is a slight difference.

But when the long horizon ends rapidly into a long sweeping bend, (like the one heading towards Changi Village after Tenah Merah Country Club along the Changi Coastal Road) u will start to appreciate the existance of a bigger roll bar. The car stay planted over the long sweeping corner, giving additional confidence and most significantly, the car does not flex as it used to be, where u used to be bracing yourself in a upright position and preventing your head from going sidewards....

The suspension, on the other hand, is more competent if u tends to track the car a fair bit or when u tends to do a lot of directional change from left to right and to take out the bumps in an undulation. A good suspension in this scenerio will keep the car composed so that the tail of the car is kept in check. Of course, it will be most ideal that both the ARB and suspension compliment each other but when a choice is necessary between the two, then i would say the ARB should come in precedent to the suspension.

Notice the training car at the BMW training ? Those car are only on the normal sport shock without much lowering but the car is very composed.. The trick ? Thicker roll bar than the normal saloon...

 

[DreamDriver]

But when the long horizon ends rapidly into a long sweeping bend, (like the one heading towards Changi Village after Tenah Merah Country Club along the Changi Coastal Road) u will start to appreciate the existance of a bigger roll bar. The car stay planted over the long sweeping corner, giving additional confidence and most significantly, the car does not flex as it used to be, where u used to be bracing yourself in a upright position and preventing your head from going sidewards....

Oh yes, this totally describes what I want to achieve with my car! So it sounds like ARB is the way to go..

[quote="piggyboyz]Notice the training car at the BMW training ? Those car are only on the normal sport shock without much lowering but the car is very composed.. The trick ? Thicker roll bar than the normal saloon... [/quote]

Yup, I can totally relate to this, having got my hands on those cars. What do you mean when you say those cars are "only" on "normal" sports shocks? How are these compared to all the various suspension combos I've mentioned? Are these the same as what Axl used to have on his car?

 

[piggyboyz]

Ya Axl got the sports suspension setup on his car....

The training car is on the M-Tech suspension which consists of a 15mm lowered spring, a stiffer shocks together with a bigger diameter roll bar.

If u really can wait, catch me for a ride in my car during the next meetup. I have the M-Tech setup in my car with Hamamn Roll bar..

U can get a feel of what it is like with this setup...

 

[DreamDriver]

Wah, thanks for the offer! I will definitely come look for you during next meetup!

May I know why you choose Hamann ARBs over the rest?

 

[ryan]

Wah, thanks for the offer! I will definitely come look for you during next meetup!

May I know why you choose Hamann ARBs over the rest?

I could remember Alan telling me when we 2 were in the workshop, "Its thicker than M-tech and sibei thick and ku LAT!"

Too bad he didn't notice me swapping his hamann with my M tech while we were installing our ARBs.

 

[Racebred]

i think if you're going to keep the car for 2-3 yrs, i set will do just nice.

 

[piggyboyz]

May I know why you choose Hamann ARBs over the rest?

A good friend of mine pass it down to me when he sold his car........ and i really liked it a lot.....

And Ryan, if u steal my ARB, u will be a fool to post it here cos the rightful owner is going to sit on ur new car and let me assure u that ur bonnet is going to dent, even suspension as well given his sheer weight .... :roll:

Now, u better return me back before i alert the owner !!! U've been warned !

 

[ryan]

May I know why you choose Hamann ARBs over the rest?

A good friend of mine pass it down to me when he sold his car........ and i really liked it a lot.....

And Ryan, if u steal my ARB, u will be a fool to post it here cos the rightful owner is going to sit on ur new car and let me assure u that ur bonnet is going to dent, even suspension as well given his sheer weight .... :roll:

Now, u better return me back before i alert the owner !!! U've been warned !

New car no bonnet

 

[DC3]

Having read and listened to Racebred's suggetions on the anti-roll bars. I changed only the ARBs to a thicker ACS set, leaving stock springs/shocks and 16in rims and tyres. Hence I venture my 2 cents worth.

Thanks! Your setup is as neutral as one gets when it comes to isolating the effects of ARB alone! Is yours a E46, 4-door, 6-cylinder? If so, your inputs are definitely rated highly in terms of relevance to me.

Now, my question is: are you stopping at ARB change, or are suspension upgrades and/or wheel upsizes to follow? If stopping, why?

I'm driving an E46 320 sedan.

Saving up for suspension upgrade but quite happy with current setup as it offers stock comfort and improved handling. Also car is only 1.5yrs old, so a bit of a waste to change suspension now. Am keen on the M-Tech suspension setup so must get taxi ride in Piggy's car one day!

 

[Racebred]

ryan's new car is the Town Bee!

 

[DreamDriver]

I'm driving an E46 320 sedan.

Ok, that's it. You have just moved yourself up in front of Piggy in my to-take-taxi-ride list!

Would you mind giving me one?

By the way, where and how much did you get your AC ARBs? How long ago was it?

 

[DC3]

I'm driving an E46 320 sedan.

Ok, that's it. You have just moved yourself up in front of Piggy in my to-take-taxi-ride list!

Would you mind giving me one?

By the way, where and how much did you get your AC ARBs? How long ago was it?

No problem with taxi ride. You can call me at 94360887. Perhaps we can get Piggy along as well at the same time.

I got my ACS set from PML last Dec during a 20% sale at around $800 (after discount) and install at PML (for warranty reasons), though I can't remember how much.

 

[Racebred]

The price is only pretty reasonable (compared to other BMW tuner brands') if you manage to get the PML 20% discount.