Forum Etiquette. Please, Let's keep things clean.

[ryan]

Dear all,

I have been notified by a few folks in the forum with regards to the way how some things are being said/posted in here.

I've been late in responding to some of them, especially the ladies and i sincerely apologise for this.

BMW.SG is essentially a BMW car enthusiast forum, let's keep it that way and not degrade ourselves into a buaya/sexually discriminating forum. I've made some threads which may have upset the ladies (Tickle A Girl thread..) and may have made my own touchy posts somewhere in the grudge match. Let me come clean on this.

It takes a group effort in keeping this forum clean. This thread is not targetted specifically at anyone right now, but there are quite a number of us who post indiscriminately and not take into consideration how others may feel. We may not be able to see this after this has been a "norm" in some threads. We have gotten carried away MANY times whenever a new female member joins our forum, and this is really disturbing.

I sincerely apologise for my hindsight on this.

From now onwards, i hope that we can all tone down on sexual innuendos and try our best to keep our forums "clean" and not make it a hormone-driven community. Let's all do our best to be more civil minded and give equal respect to each other, regardless of gender.

Likewise, i seek everyone's assistance in helping me with keeping the forums clean. We only have a select number of moderators, but your combined feedback does truely matter.

Feel free to PM/email me or any other of the other moderators (Sam, Puny, Racebred, Piggyboyz) if you have issues/threads to report.

I welcome everyone's comments/critique and suggestions on how we can make this forum a better place for everyone.

 

[Wayansurfer]

Good Call..!

 

[Shaun]

Finally. Excellent call!

 

[Turbular]

Really well said and good call...

 

[SMYUEN]

Nice one ryan...

I was just commenting to a few fellow forumers couple of days ago how some threads were, like you said, "buaya".

Think we need to watch our language and writing too.

 

[ACSCAB2]

Re: Forum Etiquette. Please, Let's keep things clean.

Ryan,

I hav been around for a long time (pre-BMW.SG days, starting fm Delphi BCOS) and maybe I shld drop some words as I see how the forum has evolved....

Yes, the current admin has done a wonderful job to keepin the forum n the spirit alive. Kudos n well done guys.

In BMW.SG, the beautiful part of this place is that it accepts people fm all walks of life, whether one owns a bmw or not is secondary (I am an ex-owner too). N coming from all walks of life meant differences in perceptions and views. We muz all be more tolerant of each other in makin BMW.SG more gracious and a better place for all. Take for example, wat is offendin to one female may not mean anything to another female on our forum. Again, I am not protectin anyone here or pinpointing any female member here.

Ryan, I know u well n u know I mean no malice; in fact, I make it a point to speak to all newbies n oldies at meetup to make everyone feel welcomed (n I am not admin, haha). I mean wat I say and I am exactly who I am both in cyber and real life.

Yes, I agree fully that it takes a group effort in makin tis place best for all; but to please everyone in the world is impossible and most of the time, we hav to live n let live.

No flaming pls. Juz needed to voice to thoughts.

Sincerely,

Ivan




[

 

[Azrielsc]

A note to all,

BMW-SG.com has grown quite substantially online and that is due to the efforts of Ryan and the continuing enthusiasm of the members that participate in our forum. To many of us, this forum/group has become a place to meet new friends, reinforce our friendships with old friends and to share knowledge about cars, particularly BMWs. We make it a point that NO ONE should be excluded from this forum, regardless of race, sex or the make/model of cars that are driven.

However, before we post anything online, let's take a moment to consider the party involved and the nature of the posts. It takes just a few particular words to offend someone and the topic could descend into chaos. Between friends that u have hang out with and lim a couple of kopi with, tolerance is much higher because everyone present knows everyone. But when the same talk is transplanted into the Internet and especially our forum, problems start to appear and we do not want it to happen.

I'll say that it's best to just monitor and be considerate in ones own posts and problems will be cut drastically.

Thanks all for spending some time reading this. If there are any questions, please PM any of the moderators for clarification!

Best regards,
Sam

 

[MW]

A note to all,

BMW-SG.com has grown quite substantially online and that is due to the efforts of Ryan and the continuing enthusiasm of the members that participate in our forum. To many of us, this forum/group has become a place to meet new friends, reinforce our friendships with old friends and to share knowledge about cars, particularly BMWs. We make it a point that NO ONE should be excluded from this forum, regardless of race, sex or the make/model of cars that are driven.

However, before we post anything online, let's take a moment to consider the party involved and the nature of the posts. It takes just a few particular words to offend someone and the topic could descend into chaos. Between friends that u have hang out with and lim a couple of kopi with, tolerance is much higher because everyone present knows everyone. But when the same talk is transplanted into the Internet and especially our forum, problems start to appear and we do not want it to happen.

I'll say that it's best to just monitor and be considerate in ones own posts and problems will be cut drastically.

Thanks all for spending some time reading this. If there are any questions, please PM any of the moderators for clarification!

Best regards,
Sam

IF there are any views, I dun see why we shd PM to the moderators if we can voice it here and let everyone clarify their doubts...not that I have any...

 

[calvin]

Re: Forum Etiquette. Please, Let's keep things clean.

No flaming pls. Juz needed to voice to thoughts.

Sincerely,

Ivan

I fully agree with u (My thought as well)... U r the only one I always respect even u betrayed me b4... i still u... :laughlik:

Will not flame u lar, u juz voice of thought niah rite.....

 

[Orh LuLu]

Re: Forum Etiquette. Please, Let's keep things clean.

but to please everyone in the world is impossible and most of the time, we hav to live n let live.

[

Finally. Excellent call!

 

[SL2]

Just feel the forum should be more open minded. Jokes that were made were all tongue in cheek without intention to insult any gender. I remember that there was a comment which said we were all adults and that the people who read the forum should be old enough to choose to believe or not to believe anything that's written here..unless there are some users who are not adult/open minded enough. Just my 2 cents worth!

 

[Racebred]

there's no curbing of free speech here. what we're trying to put across is, there's always a basis of common courtesy and tact when communicating with another person.

it's up to the individual to exercise a certain acceptable level of etiquette. It's also up to him to decide how he wants to present himself in public.

but it'll be good if everybody can come together to a common level of understanding.

There's no coercion, it's just a call. I'm sure many people can understand where we're coming from.

 

[rodders]

Finally!!! A very EXCELLENT CALL!!

Now let's just hope everyone here practice what they preached for the good of everyone in this forum.

 

[rex7_vtec]

Just feel the forum should be more open minded. Jokes that were made were all tongue in cheek without intention to insult any gender.. I remember that there was a comment which said we were all adults and that the people who read the forum should be old enough to choose to believe or not to believe anything that's written here..unless there are some users who are not adult/open minded enough. Just my 2 cents worth!

I kinda agree with you bro.... But we must admit there are a few times whereby the harmless threads are misinterpreted by other fellow forumers too.... Bottom line, everyone has their own mindset and mentality

 

[kenntona]

Hi All Forumers,

I post this reply not with the aim to complicate the matter at hand. With the diverging views on this subject, any reply posted herein will be metaphorically analogous to stirring the hornet's nest - I fear getting myself stung in the process. Yet I feel obligated to speak up, since the issue in focus concerns the Grudge Match (of which I have had started here, in continuation from the Delphi days), and as well being the guilty forumer with the most number of posts. There is definitely a need to clarify several issues here, albeit the touchy nature of discussion here.

With regards to the nature of postings, the sensitivity cannot be emphasised more. Given that this is public forum, we should be accountable on an individual basis as a forum member, and as a collective body representing the interests of the local BMW enthusiasts at large. Afterall, the forum is offered to all forumers free of charge, with the admin solely shouldering the operating costs and the efforts of maintenance. Gratitude needed to be expressed here.

Having said that, the nature of the postings becomes very subjective at times, especially when we get too involved personally. This is especially when the views on such etiquettes vary from sub-groups to sub-groups within the forum. Intepretations differ. For instance, while some might find threads like Race Queens offensive, or tasteless to some for that matter, it is not exactly a taboo subject in many other forums.

Another example - the overwhelming response on a female newbie. Take for instance, the intro thread on fabsmiche and snoppy elicited the same kind of response as that from meimei. Group them together, and you could form the impression that the interests on female newbies are generally "warmer" - as compared to the welcome notes to other newbies such as CricketWee or Kevinm. In fact, the perception of such "overwhelming" attention on our new lady forumers, specifically iconised as "buaya/sexually discriminating" behaviour, is a natural trait for all forums alike, as far as I could see. You could recall "legends" such as Winnercafe or Guru to see my point. It does not pertain to a particular group of forumers here. Sure, we are BMW enthusiasts. But we are fun people as well. We are mostly male drivers, as well as a friendly bunch of jokers (to some). Hard to curb that "hormonally-driven" enthusiasm, in my view. Might as well let it flow. As long as there is no intimidation of sorts.

I recall this thread on urine, and the one with the rice queen exposing her nipple. I am trying hard to be objective here, but strangely I do not see the same "few folks" who instigated this moral alert exhibiting the same kind of response on those threads. I am not trying to shift the blame onto those who started these threads (quite frankly, I did enjoy reading them), but from the bottom of my heart I do not see the consistency in judgement being applied here. The outcry is elicited only when "a number of us" posted these stuff. Unless the word "cock" used in that thread is not considered offensive, or that the exposed nipple is not a snapshot typical of pornography, I beg to scream a tad shade of inconsistency in applying forum etiquette here. I will beg your pardon on this, but please tell me that I am not making a fair comparison. Ironically, this does not quite sound like coercion, but more like coalition.

What struck me on reflection is a cyber-cultural shift as many newcomers (like me) join the forum. I'd remember that the Delphi days were a hell lot more conservative in the postings. I could only hypothesize that the forum culture shifted somewhat with an increased forum population and a much-more-diverse mix. There are more and more OT-ing here and there. More and more diverse topics here and there. In this context, it would take some time to align the various newcomers into the vision and modus operandi of the forum. With this influx, there are only 2 resolutions - be more liberal, or take a restraining approach. For the latter, if there is a common code of forum ethics to be applied here, I would suggest that the admin enforces it. It will streamline the quality of postings here - what would then be pleasing and desirable to the "few folks" who has an institution of forum ethics and etiquettes. Spell the boundary out, and apply the it consistently across the board. No favours. Else, leave the autonomy to each and every forumers. We shall trust all to be mature and understanding.

Most important of all, let us all be sympathetic and sensitive when postings sensitive topics. Everyone learns this the hard way. Kenna slammed and got smarter in the process.

Ryan, you need not apologise at all. The forum has evolved itself to be one of the best around locally.

Ryan/Sam, my apology for vocalising my thoughts - might stir some controversies here. But understandably, it is within your job as a moderator to draw a boundary with regards to the nature of the posts within the forum, before it escalates into a malfeasance. At the same time, take a step back and see if the macro picture is really a patch of taint or stain. It could well be a blushing kaleidoscope of diversity.

Cheers & Regards

 

[MW]

Hi All Forumers,

I post this reply not with the aim to complicate the matter at hand. With the diverging views on this subject, any reply posted herein will be metaphorically analogous to stirring the hornet's nest - I fear getting myself stung in the process. Yet I feel obligated to speak up, since the issue in focus concerns the Grudge Match (of which I have had started here, in continuation from the Delphi days), and as well being the guilty forumer with the most number of posts. There is definitely a need to clarify several issues here, albeit the touchy nature of discussion here.

With regards to the nature of postings, the sensitivity cannot be emphasised more. Given that this is public forum, we should be accountable on an individual basis as a forum member, and as a collective body representing the interests of the local BMW enthusiasts at large. Afterall, the forum is offered to all forumers free of charge, with the admin solely shouldering the operating costs and the efforts of maintenance. Gratitude needed to be expressed here.

Having said that, the nature of the postings becomes very subjective at times, especially when we get too involved personally. This is especially when the views on such etiquettes vary from sub-groups to sub-groups within the forum. Intepretations differ. For instance, while some might find threads like Race Queens offensive, or tasteless to some for that matter, it is not exactly a taboo subject in many other forums.

Another example - the overwhelming response on a female newbie. Take for instance, the intro thread on fabsmiche and snoppy elicited the same kind of response as that from meimei. Group them together, and you could form the impression that the interests on female newbies are generally "warmer" - as compared to the welcome notes to other newbies such as CricketWee or Kevinm. In fact, the perception of such "overwhelming" attention on our new lady forumers, specifically iconised as "buaya/sexually discriminating" behaviour, is a natural trait for all forums alike, as far as I could see. You could recall "legends" such as Winnercafe or Guru to see my point. It does not pertain to a particular group of forumers here. Sure, we are BMW enthusiasts. But we are fun people as well. We are mostly male drivers, as well as a friendly bunch of jokers (to some). Hard to curb that "hormonally-driven" enthusiasm, in my view. Might as well let it flow. As long as there is no intimidation of sorts.

I recall this thread on urine, and the one with the rice queen exposing her nipple. I am trying hard to be objective here, but strangely I do not see the same "few folks" who instigated this moral alert exhibiting the same kind of response on those threads. I am not trying to shift the blame onto those who started these threads (quite frankly, I did enjoy reading them), but from the bottom of my heart I do not see the consistency in judgement being applied here. The outcry is elicited only when "a number of us" posted these stuff. Unless the word "cock" used in that thread is not considered offensive, or that the exposed nipple is not a snapshot typical of pornography, I beg to scream a tad shade of inconsistency in applying forum etiquette here. I will beg your pardon on this, but please tell me that I am not making a fair comparison. Ironically, this does not quite sound like coercion, but more like coalition.

What struck me on reflection is a cyber-cultural shift as many newcomers (like me) join the forum. I'd remember that the Delphi days were a hell lot more conservative in the postings. I could only hypothesize that the forum culture shifted somewhat with an increased forum population and a much-more-diverse mix. There are more and more OT-ing here and there. More and more diverse topics here and there. In this context, it would take some time to align the various newcomers into the vision and modus operandi of the forum. With this influx, there are only 2 resolutions - be more liberal, or take a restraining approach. For the latter, if there is a common code of forum ethics to be applied here, I would suggest that the admin enforces it. It will streamline the quality of postings here - what would then be pleasing and desirable to the "few folks" who has an institution of forum ethics and etiquettes. Spell the boundary out, and apply the it consistently across the board. No favours. Else, leave the autonomy to each and every forumers. We shall trust all to be mature and understanding.

Most important of all, let us all be sympathetic and sensitive when postings sensitive topics. Everyone learns this the hardway. Kenna slammed and got smarter in the process.

Ryan, you need not apologise at all. The forum has evolved itself to be one of the best around locally.

Ryan/Sam, my apology for vocalising my thoughts - might stir some controversies here. But understandably, it is within your job as a moderator to draw a boundary with regards to the nature of the posts within the forum, before it escalates into a malfeasance. At the same time, take a step back and see if the macro picture is really a patch of taint or stain. It could well be a blushing kaleidoscope of diversity.

Cheers & Regards

yes I agree...if u come up with a set of rules and principles, apply it consistently and without fear or favour, be it the common member or even an admin or a close fren of the admin. As Kenntona has said, I enjoyed reading those corny and even obscene jokes even by members of the admin but never did it cross my mind that they were offensive to females or any members here becos ALL of us know from the veer and tone of the postings that they were meant to be jokes and not sexually offensive in the strict sense.

And for those who quickly "agreed" with Ryan's post, I would humbly urge you to look at your own previous postings and make a smart assessment of what the contents were about before readily jumping in on the bandwagon. Ryan is right on his posting and I dun dispute it and Racebred is right also on the non-coercion part. I myself am guilty of some tasteless jokes and those females who met up with us eventually have learnt to accept us as we are and even made the same tasteless jokes.

EVERY guy is a buaya in a certain way..nothing wrong with that...

My 2 cents

 

[Racebred]

There are a set of invisible rules, which will be natural and reasonable to the vast majority. Our forum depends on this invisible rule for stability.

Admins also dont have the time or energy to moderate this forum all the time, nor do they have the ability to read every single post. Who doesnt want to enforce moderation with 100% equality, but realistically the admin also boh pian. Any deviation from the said 100% is immediately accused of "coalition", "bias", "unfair". It's not intentional, and anyone can point us out to any discrepancies.

You all should have noticed by now the admins give a pretty free hand to the postings with almost zero moderation. We only react when we get feedback (or complains), think through it, and come out with some "suggestions" or "soft guidelines" and "hope ppl can be aware that complains are made". This is the moderation route we choose to take. As you can see it's very soft. And it's also the tone in which this thread has started.

There hasnt been complains about urine and nipples, and if i may hazard a guess, it could be coz it's a one off thing. When something prolonged is eye-catching, after some time admins will receive feedback. We can sit on the feedback concentrate on our salary jobs, or we can issue a gentle reminder. We did the latter. You can be sure if somebody did object to the nipple post, we would certainly have sat down and thought through the problem. But none came. The difference lies in the frequency, I reckon. But it's only my guess.

There's no money to be made if we take sides, and we do not live a happier life if only a certain group gets flak only. I dont believe any moderator has any agenda. There's no "if you're my friend I cut you some slack".

So, may i suggest, if there happens to be any more perceived inequality, pls let us know, voice it out in the open if desired, and we'll see to the discrepancies that got through the loophole. We have no sided interests here other than to try to keep the forum proper and enjoyable. It'll be better if things are taken more at face value rather than approached from the negative viewpoint.


So as you can see, we do need help here. If anyone else is interested in maintaining the forum, we'd gladly accept the help. Anyone who surfs this forum daily will be very suitable.

 

[hellfire]

Knn u always sibeh hiao...throw so many words into a post until it is double the length of what it should have been. I think u shld stick to dribbling... :twisted:

Actually very simple...posters be mindful of others regardless of serious or non-serious discussions...readers be tolerant of the views of others also regardless of serious or non-serious discussions.

Ok, now I'm off to draft my ivan-style "I'm a lau chiao" speech *yawn* hehehe...

Hi All Forumers,

I post this reply not with the aim to complicate the matter at hand. With the diverging views on this subject, any reply posted herein will be metaphorically analogous to stirring the hornet's nest - I fear getting myself stung in the process. Yet I feel obligated to speak up, since the issue in focus concerns the Grudge Match (of which I have had started here, in continuation from the Delphi days), and as well being the guilty forumer with the most number of posts. There is definitely a need to clarify several issues here, albeit the touchy nature of discussion here.

With regards to the nature of postings, the sensitivity cannot be emphasised more. Given that this is public forum, we should be accountable on an individual basis as a forum member, and as a collective body representing the interests of the local BMW enthusiasts at large. Afterall, the forum is offered to all forumers free of charge, with the admin solely shouldering the operating costs and the efforts of maintenance. Gratitude needed to be expressed here.

Having said that, the nature of the postings becomes very subjective at times, especially when we get too involved personally. This is especially when the views on such etiquettes vary from sub-groups to sub-groups within the forum. Intepretations differ. For instance, while some might find threads like Race Queens offensive, or tasteless to some for that matter, it is not exactly a taboo subject in many other forums.

Another example - the overwhelming response on a female newbie. Take for instance, the intro thread on fabsmiche and snoppy elicited the same kind of response as that from meimei. Group them together, and you could form the impression that the interests on female newbies are generally "warmer" - as compared to the welcome notes to other newbies such as CricketWee or Kevinm. In fact, the perception of such "overwhelming" attention on our new lady forumers, specifically iconised as "buaya/sexually discriminating" behaviour, is a natural trait for all forums alike, as far as I could see. You could recall "legends" such as Winnercafe or Guru to see my point. It does not pertain to a particular group of forumers here. Sure, we are BMW enthusiasts. But we are fun people as well. We are mostly male drivers, as well as a friendly bunch of jokers (to some). Hard to curb that "hormonally-driven" enthusiasm, in my view. Might as well let it flow. As long as there is no intimidation of sorts.

I recall this thread on urine, and the one with the rice queen exposing her nipple. I am trying hard to be objective here, but strangely I do not see the same "few folks" who instigated this moral alert exhibiting the same kind of response on those threads. I am not trying to shift the blame onto those who started these threads (quite frankly, I did enjoy reading them), but from the bottom of my heart I do not see the consistency in judgement being applied here. The outcry is elicited only when "a number of us" posted these stuff. Unless the word "cock" used in that thread is not considered offensive, or that the exposed nipple is not a snapshot typical of pornography, I beg to scream a tad shade of inconsistency in applying forum etiquette here. I will beg your pardon on this, but please tell me that I am not making a fair comparison. Ironically, this does not quite sound like coercion, but more like coalition.

What struck me on reflection is a cyber-cultural shift as many newcomers (like me) join the forum. I'd remember that the Delphi days were a hell lot more conservative in the postings. I could only hypothesize that the forum culture shifted somewhat with an increased forum population and a much-more-diverse mix. There are more and more OT-ing here and there. More and more diverse topics here and there. In this context, it would take some time to align the various newcomers into the vision and modus operandi of the forum. With this influx, there are only 2 resolutions - be more liberal, or take a restraining approach. For the latter, if there is a common code of forum ethics to be applied here, I would suggest that the admin enforces it. It will streamline the quality of postings here - what would then be pleasing and desirable to the "few folks" who has an institution of forum ethics and etiquettes. Spell the boundary out, and apply the it consistently across the board. No favours. Else, leave the autonomy to each and every forumers. We shall trust all to be mature and understanding.

Most important of all, let us all be sympathetic and sensitive when postings sensitive topics. Everyone learns this the hard way. Kenna slammed and got smarter in the process.

Ryan, you need not apologise at all. The forum has evolved itself to be one of the best around locally.

Ryan/Sam, my apology for vocalising my thoughts - might stir some controversies here. But understandably, it is within your job as a moderator to draw a boundary with regards to the nature of the posts within the forum, before it escalates into a malfeasance. At the same time, take a step back and see if the macro picture is really a patch of taint or stain. It could well be a blushing kaleidoscope of diversity.

Cheers & Regards

 

[quiksilver]

Knn u always sibeh hiao...throw so many words into a post until it is double the length of what it should have been. I think u shld stick to dribbling... :twisted:

Actually very simple...posters be mindful of others regardless of serious or non-serious discussions...readers be tolerant of the views of others also regardless of serious or non-serious discussions.

Ok, now I'm off to draft my ivan-style "I'm a lau chiao" speech *yawn* hehehe...

I oso can qualify to draft those type of speech everytime some issues crops up :screwedu:

My 2 cents worth... WORLD PEACE

Life is oredi tough enuff, why make the cyber life tougher for others?

Dun bother to reply to this thread cos this will be my last thread on this topic.

 

[Carhartt]

There is always 2 sides to a story...lets just try and look at it from the more positive point of view. Jokes maybe tasteless or obscene to some ppl, but it does bring some laughter to some. I guess it is up to one to percive how a posting is bad, but i guess everyone is in here for the fun. All in all..it does bring some color into the forum or else it will just way too boring. i agree with ryan maybe we may need to review ourselves when making some posts, but i guess we never meant any harm to anyone. This is the best forum i have been in...so lets just enjoy.