Updated 3 litre ?

[yky]

There is mention in some local motoring magazines of a 272 bhp / 320Nm 3.0 litre engine being used in the new X5 and they are not referring to the turbo engine used in the 335Ci.
As far as I know, the numbers for the 3 litre valvetronic are 258 / 300 respectively.
Is there a recent silent engine upgrade? If so, wonder if this would involve the 3, 5 and 7 series as well.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

yes i believe that is the engine thats going into the 335i for the start. It will move down the chain soon. Singapore market will take some time. But i reckon for mainstream 3litre, the first car to get it would be the 330i E92 coupe.

 

[hitmee]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

Z4 3litre is already upgraded to 265hp isn't it? So soon upgrade to 272 again.

Back then i thought 258hp is already the max.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Price OTR[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Power[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]hp[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Torque Nm[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Acceleration 0-62mph Seconds[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]0 - 62[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Top Speed mph[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]Combined [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]mpg[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BMW 325i SE Coupé[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]£28,090[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]218[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]250[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6.9[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]153[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]33.6[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BMW 330i SE Coupé[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]£31,290[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]272[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]315[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]6.1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]155*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]32.1[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BMW 335i SE Saloon[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]£30,940[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]306[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]400[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5.6[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]155*[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]29.4[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]BMW 335i SE Coupé[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]£33,420[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]306[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]400[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]5.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]155[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, sans-serif]29.7[/FONT]


As you can see above, only the 3.0 litres is available in the Coupe and Saloon. Also available for the X3 as well. Only the 325i remains stagnant interms of engine revisions. And the 335i is the one at 306bhp with 2x turbo.

 

[piggyboyz]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

The guy at BMW has a breakthough in the 3.0L engine and managed to squeeze 272hp out of the block. The beauty of it is that they managed to lower the consumption figures as well and this is made possible by the use of Direction Injection Technology. There was a feature of this technology in the previous issue of BMWCAR magazine.

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

The guy at BMW has a breakthough in the 3.0L engine and managed to squeeze 272hp out of the block. The beauty of it is that they managed to lower the consumption figures as well and this is made possible by the use of Direction Injection Technology. There was a feature of this technology in the previous issue of BMWCAR magazine.

thas freaking almost 100hp per 1000CC. Like the ///M cars.

 

[hitmee]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

To think that Merc needs 3500cc V6 to achieve 272hp. BMW engineers are pure genius

 

[Shaun]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

To think that Merc needs 3500cc V6 to achieve 272hp. BMW engineers are pure genius

The popular press will have people believe that high specific outputs are always a result of great engineering and high technology. This is only sometimes the case. Proof is in the details and not only in the specific output figure. Higher specific output have been around since a few decades ago. Knowledge, material, technology to reach these specific outputs is available to any OEM or even entities far smaller. Reasons for not pursuing high specific outputs in a NA road car abound - cost and performance-longevity tradeoffs being the major two.

Mercedes probably has a different goal in mind and so has struck a different balance. Their larger displacement V6 will almost certainly yield wider spread of power, only have to operate at a lower engine speed most of the time in order to deliver equal power. This in general will mean better NVH, longer engine life.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

...and all else equal, better gas mileage at high load cruise, or when combined with DoD or other variants, better gas mileage city driving too.

 

[TripleM]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

NVH = Noise , Vibration and Harshness ?

 

[Shaun]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

Jack, yup.

I don't mean to suggest that the larger engine is superior - just that it is meant to satisfy different requirements. A smaller displacement, lower cylinder number, higher specific output engine can have higher peak power output from a smaller engine (easier to package). Smaller engine fits in a smaller car, turns higher engine speeds - many small sports and race cars are built this way. Smaller displacement, lower taxes too in many countries.

There are however, many sportscars with massive displacement long life engines, that are extremely quick and handle great. It doesn't take as much space to add cylinders as people think, and it isn't especially critical in a road car application where space isn't totally optimized. It hardly adds mass for a given power, but it does bring with it lots of power width. It would seem engine mass reduction would occur along with size reduction, but for a given power it doesn't really happen because the basic tradeoff is made between cylinder combustion thermal as well as pressure loads, and engine speed - each stressing the components in their own way and requiring mass, whether directly or indirectly. IOW, density increase accompanies size reduction.

So X-life@Y-power@Z-delivery@A-size@B-mass@C-cost is the real engineering challenge. Manufacturers publish power, power width (delivery) and mass, whilst size can be observed. Engine life is never given with road car engines, and they are driven in vastly different ways, so it is very difficult to determine the level of engineering put into any road car engine. Actual engine cost is also never given.

Honda's F20C putting out 120hp/litre, which I believe is still the best NA production road engine specific output ever, basically took a couple steps in the sportbike engine direction in terms of cylinder and port geometry and liner material, etc. Geometry that has been known for decades, with similar materials existing for decades too. It was just designed with unusual targets, and manufactured to tighter tolerances.

 

[Racebred]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

remember once upon a time people drove their mercedes 200 or those box volvo for 30 years daily without any major problems? If you push to the limits of engineering power outputs for nice brochure figures, most likely this is not going to happen again. The golden era of unbreakable cars is over, looking at the way things are going now.

 

[Shaun]

Re: Updated 3 litre ?

There have been zero longevity tradeoff advances like variable tract, variable valvetrain, direct injection, piston crown and chamber design, materials, tolerances. All still tradeoff on cost and complexity (often tied to reliability unless well engineered), and most on size and mass. Many of the advances have more to do with power width than peak power - latter of which is solely (of the two) involved in specific output (hp/l). These advances yield fractional or low single digit percentage increases in power, so it is possible to build anvil-engines that are slightly more powerful than older ones. I think talking in terms of the plain engine, should be able to live longer than in the past, just that perhaps everything that supports it - all the electronics, pneumatic valves, etc. just fails before the engine does and people give up on them. In the past engines were a lot simpler... carbs and distributors, simpler systems overbuilt and hardy, easier to fix if necessary.

The big jumps in specific output always come from basic geometry changes arising from different targets. I agree that most manufacturers are building in the direction of performance in exchange for reduced longevity, trading longevity for lower costs, or both.