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Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
- Thread starter Mockngbrd
- Start date
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
I think they had just gotten a couple gtr's and starting to take them apart.
I think they had just gotten a couple gtr's and starting to take them apart.
DoggieHowser
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
Autocar reckoned it was the DSG that gave it the edge over the GT3 and Turbo.
Ditto with Car Magazine's review comparing it to the M3, the Turbo and the R8.
To be honest, I think the results are too close for Joe Average driver to see a huge difference in performance when driving these cars.
It might be a fairer fight when the Porsches come equipped with equivalent DCT. With it, the driver skills will be more important. I think the TT and GT3 could be faster if the driver was skillful enough to overcome the tail happy weight distribution and can tap into the better power/weight ratios. But for most drivers, the better weight distribution and fancier electronics AWD should balance that out.
Autocar reckoned it was the DSG that gave it the edge over the GT3 and Turbo.
Ditto with Car Magazine's review comparing it to the M3, the Turbo and the R8.
To be honest, I think the results are too close for Joe Average driver to see a huge difference in performance when driving these cars.
It might be a fairer fight when the Porsches come equipped with equivalent DCT. With it, the driver skills will be more important. I think the TT and GT3 could be faster if the driver was skillful enough to overcome the tail happy weight distribution and can tap into the better power/weight ratios. But for most drivers, the better weight distribution and fancier electronics AWD should balance that out.
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
The Porsches are about as fast as they can get already, and these are pro racers driving them so adding a fancy autobox is not going to beat the gtr...at least not in price.
When do you guys think Porsche is going to have another FR layout car again?
The Porsches are about as fast as they can get already, and these are pro racers driving them so adding a fancy autobox is not going to beat the gtr...at least not in price.
When do you guys think Porsche is going to have another FR layout car again?
DoggieHowser
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
Having a DSG gives the good drivers the split seconds not to get bogged down by the mechanical action and concentrate on the crucial control and braking and acceleration points. This was borned out in more than one review.
As for a midship Porsche? They already have it: it's called the Cayman or the Carrera GT.
Perhaps calling it a Cayman was a mistake. This forced them to make it a lower tiered rung below the 911, it was difficult to make the Cayman more capable without feeling the ire of their loyal 911 customers.
But I can easily imagine a Cayman GT3 or Cayman Turbo or Cayman GT2 which would be far more balanced
Having a DSG gives the good drivers the split seconds not to get bogged down by the mechanical action and concentrate on the crucial control and braking and acceleration points. This was borned out in more than one review.
As for a midship Porsche? They already have it: it's called the Cayman or the Carrera GT.
Perhaps calling it a Cayman was a mistake. This forced them to make it a lower tiered rung below the 911, it was difficult to make the Cayman more capable without feeling the ire of their loyal 911 customers.
But I can easily imagine a Cayman GT3 or Cayman Turbo or Cayman GT2 which would be far more balanced
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
DoggieHowser;308617 said:
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
My god the GTR has monstrous performance largely accessible by the semi pro drivers our Tsukuba friends. And Nissan has played the Nurburgring timing marketing game more purely and better than Porsche.
Because Porsche has muddied the game, really. Do you want to buy a sports car for the pleasure or for the speed? Porsche tries both, and they are bullshitting, because pleasure and speed is largely mutually exclusive. But yet they played the game when it suited them. But now Nissan GTR plays it better, Porsche has to find some way to do the difficult marketing of `how the car feels' and `involvement' which, is damn difficult given most people's obsession with easily demonstrable metrics like laptimes and acceleration times etc.
Perhaps Chris Harris in the latest 0-60 magazine (excellent new mag!!!) puts it best... the Porsche is the best incarnation, the ultimate incarnation, of the analog sports car. The Nissan GTR is the first and best digital sports car, beating the shit outta the analog sports car in the measurable objective metrics, but both have a place.
Who wears a digital watch hands up. But perhaps that's unfair since we all have cellphones now. I'm sure, without cellphones, many many more of us would be wearing digital watches instead of the analog stuff we have now. But still, even a person as I, in the tech trade and all, couldn't help but get seduced by the simple complication of an analog watch with automatic winding.
I remember as a kid, I pitted my Casio multi melody with calculator against my dad's Rolex, with reference to the US Naval Caesium clock shortwave signal, and benched it every day to see which was more accurate. The Casio won within 3 days, the Rolex so-called CHRONOMETER developed inaccuracies. So would my dad switching to Casio? Yes he did, but merely for the stopwatch, and he didn't wear that often, often using the Rolex instead. I was puzzled WHY my dad did not bow to the undeniable superior accuracy of the Casio, which was superior in every way. But now, I know. I was a kid. What did I know?
Chris Harris, I just think you're at the top of your game today, dude. You're probably the best automotive writer of all those alive now. To put forth such a complicated concept so simply... well done.
My god the GTR has monstrous performance largely accessible by the semi pro drivers our Tsukuba friends. And Nissan has played the Nurburgring timing marketing game more purely and better than Porsche.
Because Porsche has muddied the game, really. Do you want to buy a sports car for the pleasure or for the speed? Porsche tries both, and they are bullshitting, because pleasure and speed is largely mutually exclusive. But yet they played the game when it suited them. But now Nissan GTR plays it better, Porsche has to find some way to do the difficult marketing of `how the car feels' and `involvement' which, is damn difficult given most people's obsession with easily demonstrable metrics like laptimes and acceleration times etc.
Perhaps Chris Harris in the latest 0-60 magazine (excellent new mag!!!) puts it best... the Porsche is the best incarnation, the ultimate incarnation, of the analog sports car. The Nissan GTR is the first and best digital sports car, beating the shit outta the analog sports car in the measurable objective metrics, but both have a place.
Who wears a digital watch hands up. But perhaps that's unfair since we all have cellphones now. I'm sure, without cellphones, many many more of us would be wearing digital watches instead of the analog stuff we have now. But still, even a person as I, in the tech trade and all, couldn't help but get seduced by the simple complication of an analog watch with automatic winding.
I remember as a kid, I pitted my Casio multi melody with calculator against my dad's Rolex, with reference to the US Naval Caesium clock shortwave signal, and benched it every day to see which was more accurate. The Casio won within 3 days, the Rolex so-called CHRONOMETER developed inaccuracies. So would my dad switching to Casio? Yes he did, but merely for the stopwatch, and he didn't wear that often, often using the Rolex instead. I was puzzled WHY my dad did not bow to the undeniable superior accuracy of the Casio, which was superior in every way. But now, I know. I was a kid. What did I know?
Chris Harris, I just think you're at the top of your game today, dude. You're probably the best automotive writer of all those alive now. To put forth such a complicated concept so simply... well done.
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
Very nice writeup btw.
Wasn't the same old vs new sentiment felt when Porsche decided to replace its air-cool design for environmental reasons. I think both the GTR and Porsche appeals to a special kind of audiences and not to a more general public that has to decide btw buying a Rolex and Casio. One really needs to know what they are buying when spending 350k - 500k on a car, wouldn't they? However, Porsche still will have a bigger audience because of heritage, on the other hand, buying a car of similar performance for 100k less is not much difficult also.
Very nice writeup btw.
Wasn't the same old vs new sentiment felt when Porsche decided to replace its air-cool design for environmental reasons. I think both the GTR and Porsche appeals to a special kind of audiences and not to a more general public that has to decide btw buying a Rolex and Casio. One really needs to know what they are buying when spending 350k - 500k on a car, wouldn't they? However, Porsche still will have a bigger audience because of heritage, on the other hand, buying a car of similar performance for 100k less is not much difficult also.
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
cool post! yes it does smell of the old Porsche is dead because it's now watercooled thing ...
About the P-cars It's not so much performance I'm talking about, but the feel of the car, the old skool motorbike on 4 wheels sounding thing ... the notchy transmission ...
And for the GTR it has humoungous performance not locatable even remotely in a sub 100K car ...
cool post! yes it does smell of the old Porsche is dead because it's now watercooled thing ...
About the P-cars It's not so much performance I'm talking about, but the feel of the car, the old skool motorbike on 4 wheels sounding thing ... the notchy transmission ...
And for the GTR it has humoungous performance not locatable even remotely in a sub 100K car ...
fasterthanferrari
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
Yeah I really felt that way too...but look where's the new Porsche, its better than ever, so I wouldn't be worried too much about Porsche sales. But you are right, GTR is the most afforable supercar now.
What I meant was for the GTR to be 100K cheaper than the 911 Turbo, so Porsche really need to reinvent thier wheel now...surely if there wasn't so many variation of the 911 around, slashing price to complete would be easier.
Yeah I really felt that way too...but look where's the new Porsche, its better than ever, so I wouldn't be worried too much about Porsche sales. But you are right, GTR is the most afforable supercar now.
What I meant was for the GTR to be 100K cheaper than the 911 Turbo, so Porsche really need to reinvent thier wheel now...surely if there wasn't so many variation of the 911 around, slashing price to complete would be easier.
timechaser
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
You need to get a new punchline now - this has been repeated way too often now...
totoseow;308698 said:
You need to get a new punchline now - this has been repeated way too often now...
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
but just about all cars these days are somewhere between analog and digital... they're all machines... from transmissions to diffs, ABS, TCS, fuel injection, power steering, DBW, SBW, etc
Take all that away and you're looking at a 20+ year old car that most wouldn't want to drive these days, and/or have a difficulty driving anywhere near potential
but just about all cars these days are somewhere between analog and digital... they're all machines... from transmissions to diffs, ABS, TCS, fuel injection, power steering, DBW, SBW, etc
Take all that away and you're looking at a 20+ year old car that most wouldn't want to drive these days, and/or have a difficulty driving anywhere near potential
centurion
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
not in fact, but how the cars feel .... can be analog or digital. In fact, the analog watch movements today are all made with the highest tech machines, lasercut etc.
the analog car of today is precision made to feel analog.
not in fact, but how the cars feel .... can be analog or digital. In fact, the analog watch movements today are all made with the highest tech machines, lasercut etc.
the analog car of today is precision made to feel analog.
PerverTT
Well-Known Member
Re: Tsukuba Battle: GTR vs GT3 vs 997Turbo vs Superleggera vs NSX-R
It's called emotional design. When a mechanical object goes beyond mere appliance and the owner is able to relate to the object in emotional terms not normally extended to inanimate objects.
It's not confined to cars and watches only. You will find it in everyday objects around you. Apple ipods, Harley Davidson motorcycles, Manolo Blahnik stilettos (some may argue this is a fetish) - they exert emotional appeal over existing and prospective owners in ways that competing products are unable to.
I agree with Shaun - strip away the mystique from the 911 and all you are left with is a 40 year old design that other right-minded car makers have not even bothered to emulate. It is the purity of form, the Porsche heritage and the stubborn loyalty of a band of 911 enthusiasts that has kept this antiquated layout going for far longer than it has had any right to.
It's called emotional design. When a mechanical object goes beyond mere appliance and the owner is able to relate to the object in emotional terms not normally extended to inanimate objects.
It's not confined to cars and watches only. You will find it in everyday objects around you. Apple ipods, Harley Davidson motorcycles, Manolo Blahnik stilettos (some may argue this is a fetish) - they exert emotional appeal over existing and prospective owners in ways that competing products are unable to.
I agree with Shaun - strip away the mystique from the 911 and all you are left with is a 40 year old design that other right-minded car makers have not even bothered to emulate. It is the purity of form, the Porsche heritage and the stubborn loyalty of a band of 911 enthusiasts that has kept this antiquated layout going for far longer than it has had any right to.
