SIC timing sheets interpretation

[kuvesh]

On the Sepang transponder timing sheets, i normally see a colum which says "best speed" or "vmax" or "max".

What is this?

My guess its your speed at a specific point on the track (start/finish line?). If this is correct, then two drivers who have the same lap time, the one with the lower vmax is probably the better driver???

 

[totoseow]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

no la. u hv to look at his tires. if he is using michelin n u r running firestone. then u r better driver. u also hv to look at his weight. if he is skinnier n u r bigger than u still better driver. then if u r skinnier but u use firestone n he fatter n he use michelin then more complicated. u hv to see his car got more stone chips or not. if his car got more stone chips it means he has less weight on his car. but also means aerodynamics inefficiencies. so it gets very complicated indeed.

 

[harold996tt]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

no la. u hv to look at his tires. if he is using michelin n u r running firestone. then u r better driver. u also hv to look at his weight. if he is skinnier n u r bigger than u still better driver. then if u r skinnier but u use firestone n he fatter n he use michelin then more complicated. u hv to see his car got more stone chips or not. if his car got more stone chips it means he has less weight on his car. but also means aerodynamics inefficiencies. so it gets very complicated indeed.

what about if he pang sai and you had breakfast but he didnt, but he had a big dinner the night before and an orange juice at the petrol station.

 

[totoseow]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

man this is for nuclear scientist to work out. for me...its who crosses the line first. doesnt matter if im faster in sector 1.5

 

[Protege]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

what about if he pang sai and you had breakfast but he didnt, but he had a big dinner the night before and an orange juice at the petrol station.

Ah.... thats easy la... just make sure your breakfast don't cross 400gms.

 

[Shaun]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

If this is correct, then two drivers who have the same lap time, the one with the lower vmax is probably the better driver???

It's too far a stretch to say 'probably' even...nowhere near that easy unfortunately. Assuming the cars are identical and If the laptimes are both far enough (over 1%) from the limit, a small difference in trap speeds is of effectively no concern and should be the least of either driver's focus. These days, with a whole range of cheap and accurate data systems that allow drivers to look detail at any point across any lap available, it makes little sense to focus on a single number affected only by a single exit and the car's power.

Even in the same car back to back on a clear track, and even if both lap times are identical within 0.25% of limit, a higher or lower trap speed cannot tell which driver is better or worse. There are too many styles of driving that give different results in different situations. To truly find out which driver is 'better' requires precise definition of the test aim to both drivers, and then looking at the entire lap or stint to see which of them really drove better for the stated aim.

for me...its who crosses the line first. doesnt matter if im faster in sector 1.5

But as long as sectors are defined properly for the specific task, they give a quick and good indication of specific driver and/or car capabilities so weaker areas can be focused on. Good for looking at (in)efficiencies...

 

[Shaun]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

Kuvesh, some examples of different targets:

1. Quickest single lap (often the preoccupation at enthusiast levels for bragging rights - lower costs in many ways)
2. Quickest 5 lap average (like (1) but with more some focus on consistency)
3. Quickest 30 lap average (effectively fuel / tire unlimited endurance race sprint stint, short in and out lanes, shorter pit lane, higher pit lane speed limits, quicker fuel rigs, quick tire changes (rules), etc. )
4. Most laps at maximum acceptable lap time average for a given fuel load (fuel limited or large pit stop penalty situations opposite of (3), etc.) Incidentally will result in lower trap speeds vs (1), (2), (3), and in many cases (7).
5. Fastest out lap on cold tires, full fuel load (low volume car tank, short tire life, sprint races where out laps count for larger % of total stint or race). Partially related to (3)
6. Fastest in lap on worn tires, low fuel load (low volume car tank, short tire life, sprint races where in laps count for larger % of total stint or race). Partially related to (3)
7. Quickest 30 lap average with minimal or the most symmetrical tire wear possible, regardless of fuel consumption (tire limited, fuel unlimited endurance racing)

...and more


Different courses and different vehicles require different proportions of skill subsets. Picking a general "better" is impossible without specifics.

The 'better' drive requires one or more of two or three factors - the driver better knowing what to do to reach specific target (knowledge), and/or executing it more precisely (skill - practiced or innate, almost always practiced though). Certain classes of vehicle require a serious fitness element to have consistency - generally top level GT, upper formula, prototypes, race karting.

Using basic data, one would then look at the following to see how closely the driver drove to the communicated target.

• Brake point selection
• Brake point accuracy
• Brake point consistency
• Braking decisiveness
• Braking decisiveness consistency
• Braking aggression
• Braking aggression consistency
• Brake modulation
• Rev match accuracy (where applicable)
• Rev match consistency (where applicable)
• Downshift timing (where applicable)
• Downshift consistency (where applicable)
• Gear selection
• Line selection
• Line consistency
• Braking trail control
• Steering aggression
• Steering angle
• Steering consistency
• Mixed acceleration aggression
• Mixed acceleration aggression consistency
• Minimum corner speed
• Minimum corner speed consistency
• Throttle aggression
• Upshift point selection (where applicable)
• Upshift point consistency (where applicable)
• Upshift speed (where applicable)
• Average throttle time
• Average brake time
• Average coast time
• Superlimit recovery
  
  ...and more

And then you get a real answer on which driver did better at reaching the specific target.

 

[totoseow]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

ok shaun dun talk somuch. kuvesh better or me. ask the right gals ps.

 

[Shaun]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

I asked them and they said Kuvesh, sorry. But they added the one that impresses them the most and by far, is Omar.

 

[totoseow]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

man time to grow some hair....

 

[Shaun]

Re: SIC timing sheets interpretation

It's the driving.. his violent downshifting and cornering, V8 wailing away at 9000 RPM as he drifts out of the turn and into the sunset