OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

[ryan]

Hi all,

This is an open discussion for the community of BMW.SG.

We all know that each forum (out there) has various forms of niches and subgroups which form and we're currently open to the suggestions of forming various additional forums in the community folder to facilitate this.

AIM: To assist subgroup "leaders" to form their own groups and hold group related discussions, images, meetups, specific events and even model updates.

How will this look like: Example(call it what you want) - The informal "3 Series Brigade", " E30 Khakis", "5 Series brudders etc", "Sixers" eg. It can be even an informal non-model specific group.

These folders will be subfolders under the "Lounge" OR.. "BMW Singapore Motoring Life". Each group will appoint a leader, who will be in charge of moderating his/own group's folder, and can appoint a group moderator(s) to take care of the specific group ONLY.

Of course, current administrators / moderators will still police the general forum on the whole, however we want to hear your thoughts before proceeding or mooting this entire idea completely.

Post your thoughts.

Warning - OT on this thread and we will apply real infraction points on your account.

 

[centurion]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

while sub groups don't work for ppl using the NEW POSTS button, it will work for forums with huge post count where pressing NEW POSTS is a stupid thing coz too much stuff comes in.

However, with separation, it will be easy for newbies to navigate this forum and thus less intimidating and hence attract more talent and fresh blood.

This has worked very very well at clublexus and MBworld.org forums though, separating the models thingie ....

What may be required is an extra room for `non-automotive Off Topic' for those so inclined to post there, and the new posts button should have a parameter to EXCLUDE NA-OT from the search.

 

[Mockngbrd]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

i guess its a double edged sword thingy...
although each groups will have their own area and sub-folder contributing to their comadarie, newbies might feel left out being "out" of the sub-groups.

It might still work... If participation is not just confined to their own groups.
Just wondering, how many sub-groups are therE?

 

[kenntona]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

Ryan,

The current state of our forum has already shown a few distinct sub-groups - examples E46ers, E90s, Club Sandy, 335 guys. The interests within each sub-group are the single common denominator binding themselves together. However, in the current "umbrella" set-up, I see mingling and participation of sorts. Example - lots of mixes and across-the-board participation in events such as charity drives and karaoke sessions. This is perhaps the most compelling factor to keep things status quo. Having sub-group folders will either alienate or segregate the forum members - it reinforces the identity WITHIN but not BETWEEN the groups.

My two cents.

 

[centurion]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

As for being `left out' of the sub groups, I see no reason for that.

A new owner of an E92, for example, would just go to the E9X 3-series sub group, and post. why should he be left out at all? he can also browse on the E9X issues more easily than now ...

Perhaps, the separation of sub groups should be done by PLATFORM, ie E92, 93, M3 bunched together. That way the MODS can be integrated in the sub groups.

Keeping it simple is great.

And as for camaraderie, the regulars would usually use the new posts search button, so all this will not impact the regulars at all. It is only the regulars who would form any camaraderie, no? Most browsers will not be interested in that.

 

[totoseow]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

the rest of us might as well just use the lounge folder and perhaps a new non-bmw folder. dun see the need for sub sub.....machiam like pap drawing GRC lines...

segregation of folders is needed to keep things orderly. too much of that and it becomes an exercise in berueacracy. it intimidates.

 

[TripleM]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

My thot is this

we hv good number of members here but only a small fraction is active and mostly these active guys know each other anyway regardless of marques and the variants within.

This forum is far from those in the US/UK where the members are truly from all over the world. The segregation will work well when the group gets too big and the right thing to do I think is to do it by platform as outlined above....

So, seeing from eg like 6speedonline...the segregation is clear..the common interest is clear. It's fantastic.

Anyway, appreciate your initiative.

My chup gor cents

 

[TripleM]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

Also, if u segregate..I dunno where people like me n toto will fit in....
Non BMW drivers folder?

 

[kenntona]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

A new owner of an E92, for example, would just go to the E9X 3-series sub group, and post. why should he be left out at all? he can also browse on the E9X issues more easily than now ...

Do note that by doing so, the sub group segregation is inducing the forumer into a specific sub-group via the sub-folder arrangement. While information is better aggregated in a way, the camaraderie within the forum as a whole will decline.

For the active forumers, no difference, except to browse through few more folders.

However, for new or not-so-active forumers, the inclination to seek association within a sub-group is much stronger than the identity with the main forum. Hence, my suspicion will be smaller across-the-board participation in forum events such as morning drives and social events (as we have seen thusfar). I dun see the benefits of segregation, but I see the downside of further erosion of overall forum unity.

Perhaps, the separation of sub groups should be done by PLATFORM, ie E92, 93, M3 bunched together. That way the MODS can be integrated in the sub groups. Keeping it simple is great.

And we should have a Porsche platform as well? It does not make any sense except for techhnical discussions, which we already have in the current system. Why further split the BMW body up? For general topic such as grooming to specific topics like exhaust mods, I really do not see the need to allocate them into specific sub-groups. Advices could be given by anyone, or from a X model owner who has owned Y model before. Except in the new proposition, he has to browse the Y model folder to give that advice.

And as for camaraderie, the regulars would usually use the new posts search button, so all this will not impact the regulars at all. It is only the regulars who would form any camaraderie, no? Most browsers will not be interested in that.

Most browsers will not be interested in other marques like Porsche too, can I presume?

No. Even though this is a BMW forum.

So, it is presumptuous to assume it is only the regulars who would form any camaraderie. Real-life experience has told me even newbies seek to form camaraderie from events (paintball, futsal, drives, karaoke sessions) fostered by the forum on a generic level.

You should attend more of these events to feel the spirit of the forum from a aggregate level than from a segregated viewpoint.

 

[phil]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

General forum for me. Otherwise it may get an "us and them" feel. And really, there isnt that much sub sub stuff happening, it's almost always a whole forum function that happens of some sort. The sub sub ones happen in secret anyway sometimes

 

[kenntona]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

And really, there isnt that much sub sub stuff happening, it's almost always a whole forum function that happens of some sort. The sub sub ones happen in secret anyway sometimes

The sub-sub group occurs for a reason - many mods cannot be discussed openly in a forum. Not necessarily illegal, but warranty issues are involved.

 

[centurion]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

Also, if u segregate..I dunno where people like me n toto will fit in....
Non BMW drivers folder?

If I understand correctly you can post anywhere you want, you are not precluded from posting into any sub folder. Of course there is a `other marques' or `non-BMW' folder I guess.

 

[iScoupe]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

My opinion - subgroup is unnecessary. shld just appoint a leader to take care the newbie, can understand alot join in & left cos feeling lost esp. in lounge section. The "old bird" know where to mingle around & discuss their view including OT.
Technical issue can always PM if is illegal.
2.5cents

 

[kenntona]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

If I understand correctly you can post anywhere you want, you are not precluded from posting into any sub folder. Of course there is a `other marques' or `non-BMW' folder I guess.

But given that TripleM has own an E46 4-pot, an E46 M3, and a Z4 before, his valuable advices will be missed unless he browses the E46 sub-group folder, and perhaps the open-top/cab/roadster folder too.

 

[TripleM]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

If I understand correctly you can post anywhere you want, you are not precluded from posting into any sub folder. Of course there is a `other marques' or `non-BMW' folder I guess.

Of course, I was merely saying....not that i really care bout being left out or anything..

 

[phil]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

The sub-sub group occurs for a reason - many mods cannot be discussed openly in a forum. Not necessarily illegal, but warranty issues are involved.

yeah i know, what i meant was, if even we had sub group folders, we wouldnt post some of the meetings in there anyway.

 

[centurion]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

Do note that by doing so, the sub group segregation is inducing the forumer into a specific sub-group via the sub-folder arrangement. While information is better aggregated in a way, the camaraderie within the forum as a whole will decline.

Hence, my suspicion will be smaller across-the-board participation in forum events such as morning drives and social events (as we have seen thusfar). I dun see the benefits of segregation, but I see the downside of further erosion of overall forum unity.


Advices could be given by anyone, or from a X model owner who has owned Y model before. Except in the new proposition, he has to browse the Y model folder to give that advice.

So, it is presumptuous to assume it is only the regulars who would form any camaraderie. Real-life experience has told me even newbies seek to form camaraderie from events (paintball, futsal, drives, karaoke sessions) fostered by the forum on a generic level.

For newbies, they jump into the forum in the most intuitive way - to go to the category which most resembles what they are looking for.

For oldies, they develop skills like press the new posts button, and search. It is easier to search for an oldie because he can remember the phrases which he remembered he read. the NEW POSTS button helps him read all subforums at once, so that is not a concern.

As for `forum unity' this forum has been, in my view, stuck in a rut where it more and more resembles EDMW from Hardwarezone despite being an automotive forum. United in being stuck in a rut does not draw new blood differing from the rut. But of course, it is merely my view which is colored.

`Forum Unity' is a poor substitute for content, and if that's what holds a forum together it is preferred that the glue of forum unity be replaced by substantive content possible by clear segregation and forum unity only supplementing.

Content is LOST in a morass of so many posts in unsegregated forum as far as newbies are concerned. There are new BMW owners and people who come to this forum, every day.

Lastly this is an automotive forum, and while futsal etc. forms part of the forum activity, it is not the reason why the forum should not redefine itself to be more of an automotive forum than a friends' group mailing list. Also consider those who do not have a thing for camaraderie, or do not have the time for real life camaraderie, who frequent this forum for discussion and knowledge. They SHOULD be in the silent majority - and this forum does not exist for the sake of the vocal minority or the people who form `forum unity'.

 

[///M3]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

i like the idea on different sections for diff model..good!(like E90.post etc)

hope this is not OT.

 

[kenntona]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

For newbies, they jump into the forum in the most intuitive way - to go to the category which most resembles what they are looking for.

Wrong. For many newbies, it started with real-life meetings. Then the forum. So the camaraderie driver holds it merit.

As for `forum unity' this forum has been, in my view, stuck in a rut where it more and more resembles EDMW from Hardwarezone despite being an automotive forum. United in being stuck in a rut does not draw new blood differing from the rut. But of course, it is merely my view which is colored.

Lastly this is an automotive forum, and while futsal etc. forms part of the forum activity, it is not the reason why the forum should not redefine itself to be more of an automotive forum than a friends' group mailing list. Also consider those who do not have a thing for camaraderie, or do not have the time for real life camaraderie, who frequent this forum for discussion and knowledge. They SHOULD be in the silent majority - and this forum does not exist for the sake of the vocal minority or the people who form `forum unity'.

The two arguments basically contradicted your relative positioning, my friend. Are you a vocal minority or silent majority? You post like the former, but hated the inclusion of social elements in a forum like a silent majority.

If segregation goes with the aim of focus, I see no point of having posts that have no relevance to the BMW marque. As per your argument, this is an automotive forum. But IMO, not any automotive forum. I came in here for information and local favours pertaining to BMWs. If I wanna talk to someone pertaining to hardcore BMW stuff, I have the E46fanatics or E90posts. If I wanna know about Porsches or Lambos or Kia, I will go to other forums. This forum exists for many reasons, and car marque identity as well as local flavours are part of it. The forum forges itself in many ways (not mere through actvities), but in a definite manner more than an online platform that suits your ideology of a pure-information-exchange-no-friendship platform. And really, a forum without any social element is really just a portal. You express your view that you like, and the rest have to listen, or they will have to leave. You draw the boundary, and seek to attract those who wanna hear you speak. That's myopic IMO. The forum is broader than that, as I have witnessed over the years. The spectrum of the BMW owners' profile is so wide and diverse you can never run a single ideology of a pure automotive platform with it.

`Forum Unity' is a poor substitute for content, and if that's what holds a forum together it is preferred that the glue of forum unity be replaced by substantive content possible by clear segregation and forum unity only supplementing.

Content is LOST in a morass of so many posts in unsegregated forum as far as newbies are concerned. There are new BMW owners and people who come to this forum, every day.

At times I am not too sure what I am looking for in a BMW forum. Technical data on new 997? Lambo pictures? Are these necessary content that pertain to your interests? Or mine? Or the whole forum? Or the "vocal minority?"

Strangely, if I dunno Axl, I will question the relevance or posting a thread like "Some Cars in the US" in a local BMW forum. And if I dunno Mockingbrd, I will be wondering what has "Vivi, China's Miss Car SalesWoman Of The Year" gotta do with me, or even the relevance of Ryan's "Saddest Pictures On The Internet". But hell no. It is part of sharing - news and experiences which might not be relevant to a pure auto fanatic, but certainly appreciated by some other forumers.

Now, try to convince me that those are real content.

 

[centurion]

Re: OPEN DISCUSSION - Sub groups forums.

argumentative, Kenntona. I see what you are trying to say but in my opinion they are nit-picking points. In any case your major points I have read, and I have stated my contribution to this discussion. Let's see others' opinions too.