New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

[turtlebmw]

Hi all,
Went to PML Alexandra today to test the new 3 series. Have to say the new face lift really makes the car look very aggressive and attractive. Was quoted 156K for the 323, and 136K for the 320 professional. I guess for Bimmers, you really have to opt for the Xenons, as without them the car looks rather blend.

Either way, my budget is around the 140K mark, and i'm actually really confused as to what i should go for.
I first tested the new 320i pro, and as with any bimmer the handling was down right fantastic. I especially love the weight and strong resistance feedback. However the 320 was a little too revvy for my liking. It really need to go through each gear to get the car going. Also, i noticed that the transmission was lagging through gear changes. For example, on entering the AYE from Alexandra. I floored the car to merge onto the expressway, and the car shifted down from what i felt was gear 5 to 2. It then started revving to about 4K rpm, which was about 70k-ish, and then as i released the throttle, the car still stayed in 2nd, and took about 3secs to shift up to 3, 4.. etc. Is this normal with the car? My SC said that the car was still new, so its not that responsive. It only had 100+km on the odometer.
I then tested the 323, and boy was there a noticeable difference. The car was A LOT more responsive, and i didn't encounter that transmission lag that i did with the 320 pro. Besides the better performance, the 323 also came with extra aesthetic features that really caught my eyes. They were the complete chrome kidney grills, and the sport steering wheel, which would be a 2K option for the pro.

I have done my search in this forum, and i know the 320 is sufficient for Singapore roads, but im also quite the performance maniac, and thus have to ask if it really makes that BIG a difference getting the 323 over the 320 pro. Even after adding the sport steering wheel, and kidney grills, i'm looking at around 139K for the 320 pro, and a saving of 17K.
I don't intend on voiding my warranty, so the most i would go in performance mods, would be ECU remap, and sprint booster. The SC told me that if i changed the exhaust, the warranty would be void? True? So with all these aftermarket enhancement, im still looking at a considerable amount of savings to get the power of the 323.
What do you all think? Should i stretch my pockets for the 323, or get the 320 pro, and mod.

Alternatively, i could look at the before Face Lift 3 series, and get a used 325. But then again, the new design of the 3 series is seriously drop dead gorgeous. It just oozes with style. Other then the face lift, the SC said there are no other changes in the chassis or engine. Plus the 325 would have i-drive.

Help the confused please..
Thanks guys.

 

[arca99]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Welcome turtlebmw,
You are comparing a 4-potter(320) against a 6-potter(323), definitely the difference is very noticeable.
Am in the same situation 2yrs back, savings vs performance...decided to opt for a 6-potter. More power plus better enjoyment for me in this case. Am currently on the E46 model...definitely agree with you that the E90 looks more aggressive.
For me, if I intend to keep the car long and wish to enjoy every moment of it, will opt for a 6-potter, cos cannot afford to keep changing cars now and then...

 

[ferd]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

there is no end,

320 + ~20K = 323
323 + ~20K = 325
325 + ~30K = 335

you have 2 considerations capital expenses and operating expenses. if money no problem, the buy the car you most fancy!

quite a few preowned e90 325 (2005 reg) on sale for about S$120k too!

 

[karlleett]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

I went to view the FL 3 series today but found the pricing unattracrtive. Was thinking wait & see what's on offer this Xmas or CNY which is in Jan.

I'm considering the 323 or 325. But with 323 at $159k it costs more than the 520 which is below 150k.

it makes the 520 better value for money....still thinking

 

[318 NewBoy]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

...I don't intend on voiding my warranty, so the most i would go in performance mods, would be ECU remap, and sprint booster. The SC told me that if i changed the exhaust, the warranty would be void? True? So with all these aftermarket enhancement, im still looking at a considerable amount of savings to get the power of the 323.
What do you all think? Should i stretch my pockets for the 323, or get the 320 pro, and mod.

Bro, ECU remap and sprint booster also void your warranty. Mod exhaust will void the warranty on exhaust loh.

Ask yourself, is performance/power what you're looking for? If yes, the choice is very clear between a 323i and 320i. Many bros in this forum will tell you power gain by modding a 4 potter is quite minimal and often nothing much can be done, unless supercharged. This is also my personal experience from my last ride. A 6-potter will definitely have more performance mods that can be done.

Cheers.

 

[turtlebmw]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Many thanks for all the replies.

Welcome turtlebmw,
You are comparing a 4-potter(320) against a 6-potter(323), definitely the difference is very noticeable.
Am in the same situation 2yrs back, savings vs performance...decided to opt for a 6-potter. More power plus better enjoyment for me in this case. Am currently on the E46 model...definitely agree with you that the E90 looks more aggressive.
For me, if I intend to keep the car long and wish to enjoy every moment of it, will opt for a 6-potter, cos cannot afford to keep changing cars now and then...

I intend to keep the car for at least two years, and most probably not more than 2.5 years. Plan to leave for the states, where the price of a 323 can buy me an M3. M3= 70KUSD. :furious: I mean i really wish i could get like the 335, but due to the money constraints, i guess i did rather enjoy the aesthetics of the 3 Series, then say buying a Golf GTI? I actually really like the design of the new Audi A4. But the only two options i have, is FWD, or AWD. And i kinda enjoy having controlled drifts once in a while. So its either BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes.

there is no end,
320 + ~20K = 323
323 + ~20K = 325
325 + ~30K = 335
you have 2 considerations capital expenses and operating expenses. if money no problem, the buy the car you most fancy!
quite a few preowned e90 325 (2005 reg) on sale for about S$120k too!

Yeah bro, i saw, quite interested in a blue one, that is fully loaded, but it has two owners. Problem here is that i'm just really attracted to the design of the face lifted 3 series, that i would dive in and buy the 320 pro, knowing that i would regret later. :uhhh: Also the FL 3 series seems to have better handling than the previous 3 series? Was surprised when my SC said there are no mechanical upgrades.

BTW: went to your "GEEK YOUR RIDE" website. Pretty awesome? Would you be able to custom something like that for the 3 series?

I went to view the FL 3 series today but found the pricing unattracrtive. Was thinking wait & see what's on offer this Xmas or CNY which is in Jan.
I'm considering the 323 or 325. But with 323 at $159k it costs more than the 520 which is below 150k.
it makes the 520 better value for money....still thinking

What time were you at PML? Might have seen you there. Yeah the 520 also has a facelift and costs less than the smaller bimmer. Infact im going to take a look at the new lexus IS250, it just had a facelift as well. Any chance you have tested it? Its more powerful, and costs around the same as the 320. But i seriously doubt any NORMAL production car can beat the handling of a BMW. I just love the steering feedback from the 3 series.

Bro, ECU remap and sprint booster also void your warranty. Mod exhaust will void the warranty on exhaust loh.
Ask yourself, is performance/power what you're looking for? If yes, the choice is very clear between a 323i and 320i. Many bros in this forum will tell you power gain by modding a 4 potter is quite minimal and often nothing much can be done, unless supercharged. This is also my personal experience from my last ride. A 6-potter will definitely have more performance mods that can be done.
Cheers.

Bro, thanks for the advice. I read somewhere that you can remove the sprint booster anytime right? Its DIY-able? In regards to the ECU remap i thought BMW would not be able to know? And the problem with it is that BMW might reset your ECU during software upgrades?

I love performance, in fact besides the Honda Civic that i drove when i was getting my driver's license, the 320i is the next slowest car i have driven. But the handling more than makes up for it.

Nonetheless, with the above mentioned mods (excluding forced intake) would i be able to get performance figures closer to the 323? I just realized tht buying the 323 would mean im spending 20K for ONE second. (In terms of acceleration).

BTW: May i know what model E90 are you driving?

Really appreciate the advice!
Cheers.

 

[check13]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Bro, get the 320 and drive in sports mode everyday. It's VERY different compared to normal mode. The $ saved since you're looking at 2.5yrs is worth your while doing what i suggested.

 

[kenntona]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Problem here is that i'm just really attracted to the design of the face lifted 3 series, that i would dive in and buy the 320 pro, knowing that i would regret later. Also the FL 3 series seems to have better handling than the previous 3 series? Was surprised when my SC said there are no mechanical upgrades.

Quite clear you fell in love with the aesthetics of the FL 3er, hence no preference over older 323 or 325 models. Have you consider the difference in the aesthetics between PFL and FL E90s?

If the differences are minor, you are better off getting a used 323/325 and spend some money modding the aesthetics. AFAIK, I dun think the external differences are that great......

I read somewhere that you can remove the sprint booster anytime right? Its DIY-able? In regards to the ECU remap i thought BMW would not be able to know? And the problem with it is that BMW might reset your ECU during software upgrades?

With a 6-potter, you will not need the sprint booster. As for ECU mods, go for a piggyback - reversible. That means PML wun know, and can never override it unless it is the new Progman programme rumoured in some US 335 models.

Nonetheless, with the above mentioned mods (excluding forced intake) would i be able to get performance figures closer to the 323? I just realized tht buying the 323 would mean im spending 20K for ONE second. (In terms of acceleration).

Back to the first option - get a higher-CC 6-potter and facelift it, compares to getting a FL 4-potter and try to squeeze a few horses out of it. I think the former scenario will give you a bigger bang for the buck, given that you are not keeping it for long.

 

[turtlebmw]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Bro, get the 320 and drive in sports mode everyday. It's VERY different compared to normal mode. The $ saved since you're looking at 2.5yrs is worth your while doing what i suggested.

Bro, by sports mode do you mean steptronic? I dont remember seeing any sport button, like they do on the Z4 and 6 series!!?

Quite clear you fell in love with the aesthetics of the FL 3er, hence no preference over older 323 or 325 models. Have you consider the difference in the aesthetics between PFL and FL E90s?

If the differences are minor, you are better off getting a used 323/325 and spend some money modding the aesthetics. AFAIK, I dun think the external differences are that great......


With a 6-potter, you will not need the sprint booster. As for ECU mods, go for a piggyback - reversible. That means PML wun know, and can never override it unless it is the new Progman programme rumoured in some US 335 models.


Back to the first option - get a higher-CC 6-potter and facelift it, compares to getting a FL 4-potter and try to squeeze a few horses out of it. I think the former scenario will give you a bigger bang for the buck, given that you are not keeping it for long.

Hey thanks Kenntona, your post actually made a lot of sense!

I actually did do some research on that, and i think it would actually cost me quite a fair sum. The entire front bumper and panels are different. Not to mention the upgraded headlight housings, especially since they new FL 3 series comes with Bi-Xenon headlamps. Besides that, the bonnet is completely different, not to mention the trunk and LED tail lights.

Either way, even if it was possible, i would still be saving a hefty sum. Mods < 10K? But then i would also lose out on warranty, which is of crucial importance to me. Especially since i have been hearing some complaints about the 3 series. And i dont intend on keeping the car more than 2.5 years. Getting a used 3er would also mean that i would not have full coverage....

I do agree that the PFL 325 is of consideration, and i guess i better check the used car market carefully before i jump in on the FL 3 series.
Very wise input!!!

Anyhow, i noticed you are a site sponsor! Are you the owner of "DPE?" IF so i now know who to go to for wheels. I seriously dread the run flats, and if i were to buy the 320pro, it did definitely need new shoes.

Thanks Alot bro.


EDITTED:
Kenntona:
Oh sorry, i think i just realized that you import the DPE wheels? hahah.

BTW: You seem extremely knowledgeable about the E90 performance mods. When and If i get an E90, do you think you could advice me on modding her? I especially like the sound of the Eisenmann Exhaust. And if installing an aftermarket exhaust ONLY voids the exhaust warranty, that would be one of my first mods.

If that is you car in your signature, any chance you took the KPE Tunnel around 1145 plus this morning? Exit at PIE towards Jurong. I think you got off at Toa Payoh. Or took the CTE exit.

Thanks again!

 

[turtlebmw]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Kenntona:
Oh sorry, i think i just realized that you import the DPE wheels? hahah.

BTW: You seem extremely knowledgeable about the E90 performance mods. When and If i get an E90, do you think you could advice me on modding her? I especially like the sound of the Eisenmann Exhaust. And if installing an aftermarket exhaust ONLY voids the exhaust warranty, that would be one of my first mods.

If that is you car in your signature, any chance you took the KPE around 1145 plus this morning? Exit at PIE towards Jurong.

Thanks again!

 

[318 NewBoy]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Bro, thanks for the advice. I read somewhere that you can remove the sprint booster anytime right? Its DIY-able? In regards to the ECU remap i thought BMW would not be able to know? And the problem with it is that BMW might reset your ECU during software upgrades?

I love performance, in fact besides the Honda Civic that i drove when i was getting my driver's license, the 320i is the next slowest car i have driven. But the handling more than makes up for it.

Nonetheless, with the above mentioned mods (excluding forced intake) would i be able to get performance figures closer to the 323? I just realized tht buying the 323 would mean im spending 20K for ONE second. (In terms of acceleration).

BTW: May i know what model E90 are you driving?

Really appreciate the advice!
Cheers.

Bro, I believed Kenn has given his valuable inputs to your questions. Yes, the sprint booster is plug & play stuff, reversible anytime. As I mentioned earlier, the performance gain by modding a 4-potter is minimal. As part of the suggestion, getting a used 323i or 325i is also a good idea, since you are not going to keep it long anyway.

I'm currently on a 323i. Bought it as a used one too

 

[cyrus271]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Quite clear you fell in love with the aesthetics of the FL 3er, hence no preference over older 323 or 325 models. Have you consider the difference in the aesthetics between PFL and FL E90s?

If the differences are minor, you are better off getting a used 323/325 and spend some money modding the aesthetics. AFAIK, I dun think the external differences are that great......


With a 6-potter, you will not need the sprint booster. As for ECU mods, go for a piggyback - reversible. That means PML wun know, and can never override it unless it is the new Progman programme rumoured in some US 335 models.


Back to the first option - get a higher-CC 6-potter and facelift it, compares to getting a FL 4-potter and try to squeeze a few horses out of it. I think the former scenario will give you a bigger bang for the buck, given that you are not keeping it for long.

I agree with this - pre-FL 325is represent incredibly good value in the current soft used car market. Just have to hunt down the specs that you want. Just won't have the new iDrive and nice lights.

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

May I propose that you consider getting the Merc C class or Audi A4, both newer models rather than the everywhere-also-got 3 series BMW ? Never choose black or silver of cos, too common colours. kekeke

 

[kenntona]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

I actually did do some research on that, and i think it would actually cost me quite a fair sum. The entire front bumper and panels are different. Not to mention the upgraded headlight housings, especially since they new FL 3 series comes with Bi-Xenon headlamps. Besides that, the bonnet is completely different, not to mention the trunk and LED tail lights. Either way, even if it was possible, i would still be saving a hefty sum. Mods < 10K? But then i would also lose out on warranty, which is of crucial importance to me. Especially since i have been hearing some complaints about the 3 series. And i dont intend on keeping the car more than 2.5 years. Getting a used 3er would also mean that i would not have full coverage....

If you check with Mike from SWC (who is the undisputed guru in facelifting or modding BMWs), he will tell you that the full facelift exercise will be about $14K including xenons upgrade. So, now you have to compare a used 323/325 and see if you could save more than $14K between the purchase price. Bear in mind that the brand new car will be depreciating much more in % terms - you will be losing more (relatively) especially for a 2-2.5 years usage.

Anyhow, i noticed you are a site sponsor! Are you the owner of "DPE?" IF so i now know who to go to for wheels. I seriously dread the run flats, and if i were to buy the 320pro, it did definitely need new shoes. Kenntona: Oh

sorry, i think i just realized that you import the DPE wheels? hahah.

Yeah, what started out for fun ended up as a sideline........ lemme know what you need.

BTW: You seem extremely knowledgeable about the E90 performance mods. When and If i get an E90, do you think you could advice me on modding her? I especially like the sound of the Eisenmann Exhaust. And if installing an aftermarket exhaust ONLY voids the exhaust warranty, that would be one of my first mods.

Wrong !!! There are lots of mod-masters in this forum !!! For e90, there are Bmer, Silver, TerenceHu, Acupunch........ they are the mod-masters !!!

If that is you car in your signature, any chance you took the KPE Tunnel around 1145 plus this morning? Exit at PIE towards Jurong. I think you got off at Toa Payoh. Or took the CTE exit.

Timing is wrong. I do take that route, but not around those timing.

 

[turtlebmw]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Woah i really appreciate all the advice!
I'm going to go view the used 325s tomorrow. After looking at some pictures, i would be totally fine driving a 325i, as long as it has Xenons and the I-Drive.

If i buy a BMW, and meet up with you guys during the BMW-sg meetups, will treat you all kopi Okay! :woowooo:

May I propose that you consider getting the Merc C class or Audi A4, both newer models rather than the everywhere-also-got 3 series BMW ? Never choose black or silver of cos, too common colours. kekeke

Yeah i really love the design of the new A4 as well. But the 1.8T Which is what fits in my budget, is FWD and i really dread FWD cars. For the merc. Its more of an image issue, and the C200 avant doesnt feel as fast as the 320pro.

If you check with Mike from SWC (who is the undisputed guru in facelifting or modding BMWs), he will tell you that the full facelift exercise will be about $14K including xenons upgrade. So, now you have to compare a used 323/325 and see if you could save more than $14K between the purchase price. Bear in mind that the brand new car will be depreciating much more in % terms - you will be losing more (relatively) especially for a 2-2.5 years usage.


Yeah, what started out for fun ended up as a sideline........ lemme know what you need.


Wrong !!! There are lots of mod-masters in this forum !!! For e90, there are Bmer, Silver, TerenceHu, Acupunch........ they are the mod-masters !!!


Timing is wrong. I do take that route, but not around those timing.

Will Do! Thanks again bro.
Hahah the car looked exactly like the one in your signature. Infact the suspension was really stiff, and you could practically see the car bouncing on the road.
I do the ECP-KPE-PIE route quite often too. Hope to catch you around sometime!

 

[C3P0]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Hi bro,
Can't advise you technically as I am an idiot on cars. Follow your heart, something like love at first sight. If you can't take your eyes of a certain make, just grab it first and then justify your decision later.

I do the ECP-KPE-PIE route quite often too. Hope to catch you around sometime!

You need something real fast to catch Kentonna Everytime I tell my sister "Look, that's Ken's ..." before I can finish my sentence, the car disappeared already

 

[kenntona]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

You need something real fast to catch Kentonna Everytime I tell my sister "Look, that's Ken's ..." before I can finish my sentence, the car disappeared already

Nonsense.

I am not fast.

You need to talk faster lah, bro........

"Hey Ken............."

 

[C3P0]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Nonsense.

I am not fast.

You need to talk faster lah, bro........

"Hey Ken............."

Neh, the only time I managed to catch you was when you were stuck in the Serangoon jam on your way to buy bao

Ok, sorry for OT, before turtlebmw use his shell to knock my head....

 

[Azrielsc]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

A pre-fl 325 with xenons & idrive will be a good buy since u won't be keeping it for more than 2yrs plus. U get power, some gadgets and a smaller hit in the pockets, esp now with the 2nd hand car market being hit hard by the economic downturn.

Use the spare change to mod it aesthetically or performance/handling wise.

Cheerio and keep us abreast of your purchase choice!

 

[turtlebmw]

Re: New FL 3 Series or Old 3 Series?

Nonsense.

I am not fast.

You need to talk faster lah, bro........

"Hey Ken............."

Hi bro,
Can't advise you technically as I am an idiot on cars. Follow your heart, something like love at first sight. If you can't take your eyes of a certain make, just grab it first and then justify your decision later.
You need something real fast to catch Kentonna Everytime I tell my sister "Look, that's Ken's ..." before I can finish my sentence, the car disappeared already

Neh, the only time I managed to catch you was when you were stuck in the Serangoon jam on your way to buy bao
Ok, sorry for OT, before turtlebmw use his shell to knock my head....

Haha the guy that was driving that 335/325 i saw was actually driving really slowly. Actually i have realized that people who buy the executive-type of fast cars, all drive very responsibly. Like on the roads, i always see all the WRX, RX8, Golfs zooming around. Saw a Nissan GTR, Audi R8, Ferrari F430, Porsche 911 Turbo, all driving considerately. They didn't tailgate, and they didn't pass 90km/h. Funny huh! I guess the badge alone means they have nothing to prove. And since these cars are all so expensive, they are probably more matured than the boy/girl racers.

But then again, if you bought a car like that, its quite a waste to drive it slowly right? I guess EVERYTHING in moderation!

Also it confirms that the car i saw wasnt Kenntona! hahaha.
And its okayy! I enjoy OTs.

A pre-fl 325 with xenons & idrive will be a good buy since u won't be keeping it for more than 2yrs plus. U get power, some gadgets and a smaller hit in the pockets, esp now with the 2nd hand car market being hit hard by the economic downturn.
Use the spare change to mod it aesthetically or performance/handling wise.
Cheerio and keep us abreast of your purchase choice!

BTW: I just went to test drive the latest Merc C200 Komp Avant. Price is slightly under 150K, and is actually more powerful than the FL 320i pro. BUT: I dont think it looks as good, handling wise, the BMW wins hands down. But i think girls will really enjoy the C200, cause it has the speed sensitive steering, and when maneuvering around the carpark, it was feather light. In terms of standard features, the C200 actually has more, inbuilt bluetooth, visual parktronic. The SE said that the Merc build quality is much much better than the BMW. But i seriously doubt it. Infact i found the merc to be a little too plastic. Seats were not that comfortable as well.

Looks like my new car is gonna be a bimmer. Just dont know which variant yet.

Will let yall know about my test drive tomorrow!

Regards!

P.S: Anything in particular that i should look out for, for the 325? It has two owners and is slightly over a year old. The SE i spoke to, said that the original owner change car like change underwear, then sold to his friend, who drink drink drink then cannot drive anymore. So now looking to sell. Hahah Believable?
Also, its the highline version, so OMV is higher.