New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

[k3nny]

I just installed a new cold air intake today..

Custom..

Its just a metal pipe out from the MAF and going down to the brake duct, which is next to the M-TechII front bar fog light and the K&N Pod filter sits there..


So anyhow, im beginning to wonder.. if it rains, and water splashes all over it, and puddles splash on it, will water enter my engine? I mean will water be able to penetrate my filter foam and go up the tubing into the intake manifold? Cause i touched the filter and it was wet.. kinda had water dripping from it.

And if yes, what will happen?

Ive read somewhere that "hydro locking" can only occur if the entire filter is submerged in water, then only hydrolocking will occur, where the engine stalls if you're lucky, or bends a conrod, break piston etc etc..


Anyhow, to further illustrate my fear, ive included a pictures...

Someone with more technical knowledge help me? hehehe...


The engine bay with the metal tubing going down..

The front bar with the filter

THe front bar with the filter2

So that is where the filter is. Should i have any fears?




Secondly, just a thought, i felt the metal tube going down to the filter and it was kinda warm bordering on hot after a drive.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile wrapping it in thermal wrap to insulate it from the heat? Or this minimal heat that even my skin can take wont be hot enough to heat the air inside the tube up that it would have an effect on power gain/loss.

Thanks alot. Appreciate it man.. hehe

 

[Whisky_Tango]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

First of all... ur pix are too huge. Hehehe

Well, this setup is ok and will not cause hydrolock under rain. Yes the filter will be soaked wet and you will have fine droplets or mist (created by the fine filter element) going into the air manifold which will give somewhat alittle better performance. Reason is due to a denser air mass now. Have you heard of water injection where water is injected through a fine mist under high pressure into the air manifold? So long as the right amount of water:fuel ratio is controlled, the engine will not have hydrolock.

The other reason is that since the pipe is drawn downwards, its needs alot of energy to suck the water up against its gravity. But if the whole filter is submerge totally in a flood. Then the water will be drawn into the engine (somewhat like a vacuum effect) and this will cause hydrolock for sure!!

Only concern if the filter is wet, is that the MAF will be damaged in no time.

Dun bother to wrap the steel pipe since the velocity of air being sucked in is faster than the hot pipe can heat up the air. Unless you are always caught in a jam.

Hope the above helps.

Cheers!

 

[gabey]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

i read somewhere that K&N has a sock to cover the cone filter to prevent water from going in. Not sure whether this product is still around. You could do a search on the internet.

 

[k3nny]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

Whiskey Tango: Thanks alot.. yseterday like.. quite kia si man when driving home in the rain..

Maybe ill pop off the filter and have a look at the MAF later and see if any apparent damage.. If there is, or periodically when it rains, then maybe i should start looking at something to cover the filter..


gabey: Yea.. its called the Pre-Charger or Dry-Charger on their website but it mentions the use of filtering out fine particles when driving in dusty areas or deserts.. never mentioned anything about water.. so i dont know about that..

For now, the only water sock i know of is for the dinan filter and wont fit my car..


On a second note, i just found out that AEM makes a universal generic bypass valve for any intake that goes down into the bumper and has the possibility of hydrolocking.

Apparently, they hooked up the bypass valve, and then connected the other end into a fish tank and gunned the car.. and not even 1 drop of water went in?

http://www.carreview.com/AEM/PRD_54370_2876crx.aspx

Anyhow, thanks alot once again for the reviews!


I really like this mod.. made the car feel alot better... ALOT.. hehe

 

[Whisky_Tango]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

Yes the AEM valve is to prevent vacuum effect when the filter is totally submerged.

Better to monitor the situation during rainy days.

 

[Azrielsc]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

Had a quick read on the AEM valve and it states that u may feel a slighttttttt loss in power... And a number of pple think that its unnecessary unless u decide to drive into a pond/lake/river/sea/ocean!!!

That's all i managed to read up on. Cheerio!

PS: Just resized your pics... easier for the rest to read yah!

 

[jaskin]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

YOu could get something like the dinan sock as seen in the pictures.

 

[k3nny]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

jaskin: Yea.. was thinking of getting a sock instead of a valve like the AEM one..

Either ways, a guy on the dtmpower.net forums is running an exact same setup as me and he tested it one day when there were torrential rainfalls.

After about an hr of driving and splashing through puddles, the filter was slopping wet and so he pulled over at a gas station, took out the intake tube and inside was dry. Not even a drop of water.. So i guess the filter absorbs it all?

But still nevertheless paranoid..


Anyone running a similar set up to mine?

 

[E34EuroTouring]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

jaskin: Yea.. was thinking of getting a sock instead of a valve like the AEM one..


After about an hr of driving and splashing through puddles, the filter was slopping wet and so he pulled over at a gas station, took out the intake tube and inside was dry. Not even a drop of water.. So i guess the filter absorbs it all?

But still nevertheless paranoid..


Anyone running a similar set up to mine?

---Not a drop of water in the intake tube ?. Maybe the engine sucked it all ?. The air velocities is rather high. At higher throttle, you can hear the filter cone whistle as it sucks air due to the vacumn in the intake manifold when TB opens.

I would suggest shortening the chrome/aluminum tube so that the edge of the cone would not hang so low. Might make sure the bottom splash cover is intact or re-inforce some more. Personally, I think the Dinan sock is used for night driving to prevent insects from being stuck to the cone!.

Also, try to heatshield the gaps from the radiator fan as the hot-air back pressure will be sucked in the cone when idling at the traffic lights. I found out it takes 3-4 mins to lose the heatm during a heat-soak cycle. I used a digital temp to measure for weeks until I decided to fix the heatsoak with a rubberised heat-shield.

 

[Whisky_Tango]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

After about an hr of driving and splashing through puddles, the filter was slopping wet and so he pulled over at a gas station, took out the intake tube and inside was dry. Not even a drop of water.. So i guess the filter absorbs it all?

Hi k3nny,

Yes the filter absorbs the water tats why it is soaking wet bro.

Having said tat, engine is drawing air and higher rev you go, water on the filter will be sucked in. But as I have mentioned earlier, this amount of water WILL NOT hydrolock the engine. This water are in mist(very fine droplets) form. As each fine droplet travels through the pipe, it is being evaporated. When it evaporates, this means tat the droplet took away an equivalent amount of heat and thus cool down the air. Those droplets tat does not evaporate will increase the density of air.

Look at this guy water injection system. http://water.lovehorsepower.com/nozzles.htm
Does the amount of water scare you?

Again, the amount of water injected must be caluclated with fuel loads.

Cheers!

 

[Racebred]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

for heavy rain, drops of water will wet your filter, decreasing air being drawn in. MAF may be spoilt. You may feel symptoms of air starvation, car jerks a bit under throttle pretty much like fuel starvation.

If you go through a flood, your engine will be hydrolocked for sure. trust me. u either have to swap engine, or rebuild it. The potential gains over having the pod in the engine bay is not worth the risk in my opinion. Pod in the engine bay is already pretty good for top end power.

I do not favour this setup.

 

[TripleM]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

for heavy rain, drops of water will wet your filter, decreasing air being drawn in. MAF may be spoilt. You may feel symptoms of air starvation, car jerks a bit under throttle pretty much like fuel starvation.

If you go through a flood, your engine will be hydrolocked for sure. trust me. u either have to swap engine, or rebuild it. The potential gains over having the pod in the engine bay is not worth the risk in my opinion. Pod in the engine bay is already pretty good for top end power.

I do not favour this setup.

Agree

I think a better and hence a definitely safer set up is with the intake pipe (custom made or wotever original) being properly chanelled right up and facing the cone filter but have to ensure the mouth of the pipe isnt too close to the cone filter top else the air flow will be dispersed

 

[piggyboyz]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

First of all... ur pix are too huge. Hehehe

Well, this setup is ok and will not cause hydrolock under rain. Yes the filter will be soaked wet and you will have fine droplets or mist (created by the fine filter element) going into the air manifold which will give somewhat alittle better performance. Reason is due to a denser air mass now. Have you heard of water injection where water is injected through a fine mist under high pressure into the air manifold? So long as the right amount of water:fuel ratio is controlled, the engine will not have hydrolock.

The other reason is that since the pipe is drawn downwards, its needs alot of energy to suck the water up against its gravity. But if the whole filter is submerge totally in a flood. Then the water will be drawn into the engine (somewhat like a vacuum effect) and this will cause hydrolock for sure!!

Only concern if the filter is wet, is that the MAF will be damaged in no time.

Dun bother to wrap the steel pipe since the velocity of air being sucked in is faster than the hot pipe can heat up the air. Unless you are always caught in a jam.

Hope the above helps.

Cheers!

Bro, think we share different view on this.

I am of the opinion that the possibility of hydrolocking the car with this setup is very high. I am not talking about splashes here but more of puddles of water or going through flood. Though water will not be drawn into the car unless the water reaches above the lip of the bumper but there are a lot of occurance where the car on ur left go past faster and the direction of splash will go into the brake duct easily. All it takes is when u r throttling and the suction is stronger enuf, water will go through the filter.

The heavy downpour late last year sees no less than 5 cars being towed back to PML for engine replacement due to hydrolocking. And the filter sits right on top of the engine bay, let alone at the bottom of the car. This setup might still be acceptable for the FI cars since the air will have a longer path, going thru TC/SC, IC which, then the engine. Mist is different cos the intensity is variable according to to throttle position and by definition, mist, not droplet.

As for the metal tube, i am of the option that since it sits so close to the radiator reservoir, it will inevitably be heated up and the cold air coming in from the bumper will end up cooling it in the process due to the extreme temperature difference. We will be looking at easily 30 degree to 40 degree differnce in temperature here and heat exchange will take place IMO.

IMHO, I feel that it's good to draw air from the brake duct but the filter should remain on top since the risk of hydrolocking and the fact that the pipe is steel, will compromise a lot of positive result to the actual efficiency of the system.

 

[Shaun]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

I tend to agree with Whiskey.

Regarding the 5 cars sent back to PML - it has to be confirmed that they were hydrolocked and not just stalled out or MAF-compromised, and if so, we have to realize the stock intake is different from one which hangs down and has its opening located 1 or 2 feet below the level of the intake manifold. Splash ingestion takes place much easier with the former as long as the water is delivered to the mouth of the intake. The latter low entry version makes it very difficult for enough water mass to fight gravity and get to the intake manifold - the only exception is that it is easier to submerge. As long as it is not mostly submerged, there will be no problem.

On the intake issue, at the large throttle openings the air speed doesn't allow much time for heat to be transferred and because of the thin low density wall, it doesn't have a lot of heat to lose anyway. Insulating anything never hurt, but the gain at anything but low throttle openings is questionable.

 

[jaskin]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

The heavy downpour late last year sees no less than 5 cars being towed back to PML for engine replacement due to hydrolocking. And the filter sits right on top of the engine bay, let alone at the bottom of the car. This setup might still be acceptable for the FI cars since the air will have a longer path, going thru TC/SC, IC which, then the engine. Mist is different cos the intensity is variable according to to throttle position and by definition, mist, not droplet.

5 cars were sent back? Damn.. I actually drove in the heavy downpour to help my bosses deliver some files.

 

[Whisky_Tango]

Re: New custom Cold air intake.. Hydro lock fears..

Bro, think we share different view on this.

I am of the opinion that the possibility of hydrolocking the car with this setup is very high. I am not talking about splashes here but more of puddles of water or going through flood. Though water will not be drawn into the car unless the water reaches above the lip of the bumper but there are a lot of occurance where the car on ur left go past faster and the direction of splash will go into the brake duct easily. All it takes is when u r throttling and the suction is stronger enuf, water will go through the filter.

The heavy downpour late last year sees no less than 5 cars being towed back to PML for engine replacement due to hydrolocking. And the filter sits right on top of the engine bay, let alone at the bottom of the car. This setup might still be acceptable for the FI cars since the air will have a longer path, going thru TC/SC, IC which, then the engine. Mist is different cos the intensity is variable according to to throttle position and by definition, mist, not droplet.

As for the metal tube, i am of the option that since it sits so close to the radiator reservoir, it will inevitably be heated up and the cold air coming in from the bumper will end up cooling it in the process due to the extreme temperature difference. We will be looking at easily 30 degree to 40 degree differnce in temperature here and heat exchange will take place IMO.

IMHO, I feel that it's good to draw air from the brake duct but the filter should remain on top since the risk of hydrolocking and the fact that the pipe is steel, will compromise a lot of positive result to the actual efficiency of the system.

No Prob, its good to have different views and a good discussion.

The 5 cars with top mount filter box must have scoop all the water inorder for hydrolock. Like I said only when the bottom mounted filter is totally submerge in water or in the 5 cars case will cause hydrolock.

Splashes or soaked wet filter will not cause hydrolock and I still stand by this until proven. Sometimes, the car hunt or judder while on part or full throttle going through splashes is because the water droplets passing through the filter element cause an interference to the MAF sensor. This amount of splash water is too little to cause hydrolock.

I have fitted in a soak wet K&N filter after washing and went for a drive, no hydrolock.

Cheers!