Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

[centurion]

(posted this somewhere else but I think this one is the correct forum)

Me and a couple of friends are looking and considering new cars. It's more attractive now that prices have dropped, road tax confirmed and higher GST is coming and COE dropped. I'm not a BMW regular, and I never followed closely on BMW in a micro way, so I'm in need of advice from retulars. My personal choices are between (in no order of preference):

Porsche Cayman S Manual 6 PASM S$285K list(1 option, PASM) 295HP

Porsche Cayman Manual 6 PASM S$246K list (2 options, manual-default 5, and PASM) 250hp

Audi TT 2.0 FWD Magride S$200K list (1 option, Mag ride) 200HP

BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe bare Manual 6 (indent) S$208K list 266HP

I would like to know more about he Z4 3.0 SI... anybody has it? Any bugbears? Tell me even the slightest opinion you have please. Most of my enthusiast friends don't have BMWs and most of the friends who have BMWs don't give two hoots about cars. Even M3 owners I know just couldn't care less about the tech aspect of their machines. They're not on this forum.

IN addition, I have the following things bugging me:

1) The 335i coupe and sedan has piezo direct injection now on the same block now, what are the chances of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe having the similar piezo DI system on the magnesium engine also?

2) How does the weight savings of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe engine compared to the z4M Coupe translate to the handling?

3) Why is the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe Singapore version rated at 266HP while some other versions in the internet quote 255HP?

4) What's the true meaning of `SI'? Detuned? What happens to the engine when they put the suffix SI on the car?

I'm not interested in paying for the Z4M Coupe as the 3.0 SI has sufficient horses for me, and I'd like a softer handling car as I'm not going to track this car regularly anyway. It's basically a gua musang/frasers hill/cameron highlands car as far as I'm concerned.

 

[hetraa]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Dude , y not consider the Lexus IS250? bang for the buck,.

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Dude , y not consider the Lexus IS250? bang for the buck,.

Not in the market for a 4 seater at this time.

 

[hetraa]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

oh i see. how about the Lexus SC430?
should consider man....

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

oh i see. how about the Lexus SC430?
should consider man....

Ummm, I'm looking for a coupe, not a boat. What's it with you anyway? Is it somewhat appropriate on this forum to ask about the 3.0SI?

 

[hetraa]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Why is the SC430 a boat? Is it similar to what they call the Toyota MarkX a spaceship?

Ummm, I'm looking for a coupe, not a boat. What's it with you anyway? Is it somewhat appropriate on this forum to ask about the 3.0SI?

 

[R33Devil]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Having owned a CaymanS for 6 months, I was very very happy with the car. The adequate bhp and mid engine layout was very nice. Car ergonomics was only so so. I am about 1.8 tall, about 200lbs and didnt like the fit of the cayman. I felt the roof was too short for me, getting in and out of the car was alittle of a task for me. I much prefer the size of my MK2 GT3 and my current 993.
Then again, having a cayman like this, didnt really help

The Z4 coupes have always been an understated segement of the BMWs, overshadowed by the M badge of its siblings, I do not feel that they "my cup of tea". They have a significant following in terms of a cult model within the BMW line. The choices represented by yourself should be narrowed down to just the CaymanS and Z 4 coupe. However you must realise that you are comparing 1 down on the BMW.

The audi with its FWD, should be FullyWithDrawn from any driver's list.

BMW in terms of a few basic items are always lacking compared to POrsches.
1) Brakes...big floating single potters compared to big 4 pots .... nuff said
2) Steering and shifter feel.. Porsche wins hands down..

there are alot more that one can do to compare, best to go with your heart. Cars like these make absolute no sense from a motoring perspective. Yet the joys in which emerge out of them are just....priceless..

Happy Shopping

-fong stuck with old heaps of metal

 

[satinGHOST|r!der]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

(posted this somewhere else but I think this one is the correct forum)

Me and a couple of friends are looking and considering new cars. It's more attractive now that prices have dropped, road tax confirmed and higher GST is coming and COE dropped. I'm not a BMW regular, and I never followed closely on BMW in a micro way, so I'm in need of advice from retulars. My personal choices are between (in no order of preference):

Porsche Cayman S Manual 6 PASM S$285K list(1 option, PASM) 295HP

Porsche Cayman Manual 6 PASM S$246K list (2 options, manual-default 5, and PASM) 250hp

Audi TT 2.0 FWD Magride S$200K list (1 option, Mag ride) 200HP

BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe bare Manual 6 (indent) S$208K list 266HP

I would like to know more about he Z4 3.0 SI... anybody has it? Any bugbears? Tell me even the slightest opinion you have please. Most of my enthusiast friends don't have BMWs and most of the friends who have BMWs don't give two hoots about cars. Even M3 owners I know just couldn't care less about the tech aspect of their machines. They're not on this forum.

IN addition, I have the following things bugging me:

1) The 335i coupe and sedan has piezo direct injection now on the same block now, what are the chances of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe having the similar piezo DI system on the magnesium engine also?

2) How does the weight savings of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe engine compared to the z4M Coupe translate to the handling?

3) Why is the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe Singapore version rated at 266HP while some other versions in the internet quote 255HP?

4) What's the true meaning of `SI'? Detuned? What happens to the engine when they put the suffix SI on the car?

I'm not interested in paying for the Z4M Coupe as the 3.0 SI has sufficient horses for me, and I'd like a softer handling car as I'm not going to track this car regularly anyway. It's basically a gua musang/frasers hill/cameron highlands car as far as I'm concerned.

1. The 335i engine is slowly debutting to the 5 by end of this year. As for the coupe, remains to be seen as i reckon there will need to restrengthen the chasis as 400nm for that body seems awfully wicked. So yeah.

2. Z4m is the pinnacle of BMW motor sport so dont expect the Z4si to outhandle the z4m. However, slap on a good coilover and you are almost par with z4m in terms of handling, not to mention your sway bars, etc. In terms of weigh, the z4m should be heavier if i am not mistaken. However, more than enough to make up for it.

3. New revision of 3.0 engine is supposed to be 272hp so i dont know. But higher the better right? So many revisions for the N series engine.

4. SI is to indicate that its using the new engine rated at 258hp as earlier Z4s used the M54. Hence the SI suffix.

Hope this helps.

 

[louis]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

1) The 335i coupe and sedan has piezo direct injection now on the same block now, what are the chances of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe having the similar piezo DI system on the magnesium engine also?

2) How does the weight savings of the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe engine compared to the z4M Coupe translate to the handling?

3) Why is the BMW Z4 3.0 SI Coupe Singapore version rated at 266HP while some other versions in the internet quote 255HP?

4) What's the true meaning of `SI'? Detuned? What happens to the engine when they put the suffix SI on the car?

3) just hazarding a guess here: perhaps the figure of 255hp was arrived at based on the US SAE standards. This reflects the rated power of the engine in as-installed trim, with all accessories and standard intake and exhaust systems.

whereas PML quoted you the figures as measured using the german DIN standards, that does not require the engine to be tested with accessories etc.

the M54B30 was rated as 225hp(SAE) and 231hp(DIN). PML markets its cars based on the DIN figures.

4) SI actually denotes the sports edition. the Z4 roadster is available in 3.0i and 3.0si versions, with the 3.0si having the higher hp rating. if i'm not mistaken, DI will be introduced to the Z4 range, although which YOM will get it, i haven't a clue.

my opinion as a Z4 owner, get either the cayman or caymanS. i haven't driven the coupe, but if they're assembled on the same US production line as the roadsters, build quality leaves much to be desired for a 200k car.

AND, PML techs don't know how to drive a stick shift properly. i smell burnt clutch each time i send my car in for servicing. if they can't drive it, how on earth are they going to help troubleshoot your gearbox problems?

notchy gearbox? "no la, its like that one"
clutch slip? "no la, its like that one"
too much free play while in gear? "no la, its like that one"

you get the idea....

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Then again, having a cayman like this, didnt really help

The Z4 coupes have always been an understated segement of the BMWs, overshadowed by the M badge of its siblings, I do not feel that they "my cup of tea". They have a significant following in terms of a cult model within the BMW line. The choices represented by yourself should be narrowed down to just the CaymanS and Z 4 coupe. However you must realise that you are comparing 1 down on the BMW.

The audi with its FWD, should be FullyWithDrawn from any driver's list.

BMW in terms of a few basic items are always lacking compared to POrsches.
1) Brakes...big floating single potters compared to big 4 pots .... nuff said
2) Steering and shifter feel.. Porsche wins hands down..

there are alot more that one can do to compare, best to go with your heart. Cars like these make absolute no sense from a motoring perspective. Yet the joys in which emerge out of them are just....priceless..

Happy Shopping

-fong stuck with old heaps of metal

I felt the Cayman being OK for me. I am merely 75kg and 1.75m. And is this your regular track car? I felt that the Cayman was hewn from stone, and any reinforcement was not necessary. Granted have to live with it to really know it.

What you say makes perfect sense. Those who think to make small 10% compromise and save S$80K (hey, you know who you are!). I've tried all in the list save the 3.0SI as there's no sampler. I'm off to a trip next week and I'll probably try the Z4M Coupe sampler with 6-manual in a couple of weeks' time.

Why did you delete the Cayman? Between the Cayman and Cayman S, I felt the Cayman as the sweeter car, but I tried the gaytronic one as there was no manual sampler. THe manual Cayman S was my friend's. I felt that the Cayman had significantly less power, but this `less power' was a boon to me as I am no race driver, and I felt that I had time to appreciate the engine more, steer more precisely, and basically do a neater job than in the Cayman S. And of course, the Cayman is significantly cheaper than the Cayman S, and that fits my bill perfectly. And did you select the PASM option?

As for the Audi TT, you are totally right but your reason differs from mine. I haven't even reached the stage of FWD understeer, and my main aversion was that the suspension acted to destabilize the car.

1. The 335i engine is slowly debutting to the 5 by end of this year. As for the coupe, remains to be seen as i reckon there will need to restrengthen the chasis as 400nm for that body seems awfully wicked. So yeah.

3. New revision of 3.0 engine is supposed to be 272hp so i dont know. But higher the better right? So many revisions for the N series engine.

As for 1, I have no interest in a turbo Z4M coupe, what I was really meaning to know was whether the Piezo DI system will transfer to the Z4M 3.0 SI NA engine or not.

As for (3) I read that the N-series engine implementation in the Z4 Couple could not be tuned to 272 because of the limited space for the resonating intakes, so the best they could eke out was 266. Anyway, I'm convinced that the 330 and the Z4 3.0 engine is at the same upgrade level, I'm merely concerned about an upcoming upgrade of the piezo DI to naturally aspirated engines. I KNOW they will do it within a few years, which is OK, but is there news that they'll do it within 12 months?

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

3) just hazarding a guess here: perhaps the figure of 255hp was arrived at based on the US SAE standards.

4) SI actually denotes the sports edition. the Z4 roadster is available in 3.0i and 3.0si versions, with the 3.0si having the higher hp rating. if i'm not mistaken, DI will be introduced to the Z4 range, although which YOM will get it, i haven't a clue.

my opinion as a Z4 owner, get either the cayman or caymanS. i haven't driven the coupe, but if they're assembled on the same US production line as the roadsters, build quality leaves much to be desired for a 200k car.

AND, PML techs don't know how to drive a stick shift properly. i smell burnt clutch each time i send my car in for servicing. if they can't drive it, how on earth are they going to help troubleshoot your gearbox problems?

notchy gearbox? "no la, its like that one"
clutch slip? "no la, its like that one"
too much free play while in gear? "no la, its like that one"

you get the idea....

OK 255 vs 266 question settled.

Build quality issues - any specifics? It's highly subjective, I know, and I am a tolerant creature with aesthetics.

But weaknesses on mechanicals, I am utterly intolerant. The PML tech horror story appals me. THough I'm not sure whether they don't know how to drive manual, or they use your RARE manual to play `drop clutch launch.' What do you think?

 

[louis]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

OK 255 vs 266 question settled.

Build quality issues - any specifics? It's highly subjective, I know, and I am a tolerant creature with aesthetics.

But weaknesses on mechanicals, I am utterly intolerant. The PML tech horror story appals me. THough I'm not sure whether they don't know how to drive manual, or they use your RARE manual to play `drop clutch launch.' What do you think?

rattles everywhere. cheap plastics for glove compartment. rattles. gearbox problems etc. sticky steering wheel when exposed to heat. a steering wheel that refuses to be aligned.... its tilted about 20 degrees clockwise, it was previously 20 degrees counter clockwise.... "normal one, check already, its ok" suspension squeaks when going down slopes. bonnet latch that refuses to unlatch the bonnet. these are only the problems i highlighted for my last servicing, i've also left out the ones that concern my convertible roof.

many of the rattles, you probably won't experience with a coupe. some of the squeaks and problems may be age related etc, but some have been present for a long time already.... and my cars not even 2 years old. i track it though, which may have acclerated the wear/tear process.

i know they can't drive manuals because i have to take over the wheel when going out for test drives because they spend more time trying to drive it than trouble shooting.

i had my suspicions about the clutch abuse, so i borrowed a diagnostic scanner which could pull out data on rpm etc and i didn't detect any history of abnormally high revs or sharp drops in rpm etc that may have indicated that my clutch was dropped.

they may have been riding the clutch though, no way to detect that. :juggle:

 

[louis]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

oh yeah, and if you look at the BMW emblem on the front bumper, it's tilted about 10 degrees counter clockwise. bloody hell, couldn't even align it from the factory.

oh wait, there's more. when i collected my car, i found a nipple like bump in the leather of my center console. there was apparently a problem with the replacement console they ordered and it took another 2 visits and a 2 week wait for parts before they finally fixed it.

electrical gremlins, faulty wheel sensors, warning lights that come on but warn of nothing in particular....

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Rattles drive me crazy. Cheap is OK, but rattles, I almost get into accidents trying to locate them. As for your steering, also intolerable. And convertible roof issues - that's the reason why I avoid convertibles like the plague. Now I know that you're also the tolerant sort though, and the issues you face would be intolerable to me, save the bit about cheap plastic.

But what you mentioned, I better keep my ears peeled and a sharp eye out during my test drive, and visit some friends who have Z4 roadsters. I don't exactly mollycoddle my cars, and though can't compare with your tracking the car, I'd probably go to the track once per quarter or so.

 

[louis]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

Rattles drive me crazy. Cheap is OK, but rattles, I almost get into accidents trying to locate them. As for your steering, also intolerable. And convertible roof issues - that's the reason why I avoid convertibles like the plague. Now I know that you're also the tolerant sort though, and the issues you face would be intolerable to me, save the bit about cheap plastic.

But what you mentioned, I better keep my ears peeled and a sharp eye out during my test drive, and visit some friends who have Z4 roadsters. I don't exactly mollycoddle my cars, and though can't compare with your tracking the car, I'd probably go to the track once per quarter or so.

bad news: i visit the track about once every quarter as well.... so if i have rattles as a consequence, you will too.

caymanS. :fineprin: i'll be a ready buyer for her in 2-3years if you order a stick shift.

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

TO be very very frank and honest, I will not buy a fun car if it doesn't come with stick shift. I already paid my dues by owning Hondas, Toyotas, Volvos, Mercs, all of them compromised cars, all of them bought with other people in mind, with resale value and resale ease in mind. My planned purchase will be my own ONLY. And it WILL be stick shift and I will not be bluffed into thinking that the auto transmission can shift in 0.1 seconds, or the DSG is magic, because at the end of the day, it's not about how fast it can shift, but how nice it is to put your hand on the stick, rev to redline, then use STRENGTH to shift up, with a satisfying CRUNCH of the synchros, et cetera.

You know what I mean.

I was never considering BUYING a fun 2 seater coupe before, though I drive my friends' ones, so imagine my surprise when all the sales executives tell me that, EVEN for the 2 seater coupes, 90% buy gaytronics! I've nothing against torque converter autos, and I think they are the best technology for road cars by a LONG LONG way, but for 2 seater coupes (not cabrios) it was very surprising.

So now I'm quite convinced that there exist people who WILL buy 2nd hand manuals for a higher price. Tell you what, if I manage to get a fun car, if I manage to bulldoze the illogic of it past my head and let my heart rule, you'll either see a Cayman, Cayman S or Z4 3.0SI , all of them 6-manual, here just for you, in a couple of years' time. But it'll probably cost more than an auto, I guess.

 

[R33Devil]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

I felt the Cayman being OK for me. I am merely 75kg and 1.75m. And is this your regular track car? I felt that the Cayman was hewn from stone, and any reinforcement was not necessary. Granted have to live with it to really know it.

What you say makes perfect sense. Those who think to make small 10% compromise and save S$80K (hey, you know who you are!). I've tried all in the list save the 3.0SI as there's no sampler. I'm off to a trip next week and I'll probably try the Z4M Coupe sampler with 6-manual in a couple of weeks' time.

Why did you delete the Cayman? Between the Cayman and Cayman S, I felt the Cayman as the sweeter car, but I tried the gaytronic one as there was no manual sampler. THe manual Cayman S was my friend's. I felt that the Cayman had significantly less power, but this `less power' was a boon to me as I am no race driver, and I felt that I had time to appreciate the engine more, steer more precisely, and basically do a neater job than in the Cayman S. And of course, the Cayman is significantly cheaper than the Cayman S, and that fits my bill perfectly. And did you select the PASM option?

As for the Audi TT, you are totally right but your reason differs from mine. I haven't even reached the stage of FWD understeer, and my main aversion was that the suspension acted to destabilize the car

Rollbar was installed not for rigidity reasons, but for safety reasons incase of a rollover..thus rollbar...
I am a horsepower junkie. Anything that has 2 doors in my garge must have more than 350bhp.
After all the cars that I've owned, I deemed the 350bhp mark as the absolute necessary benchmark for power. Esp when its a car I "drive".
PASM comes on most showroom spec cars, most drivers would option for it. There is no absolute way to totally turn off the system. No matter how hard I tried, it was very hard to drive it like a full on warm blooded rwd. The system was always active, and it was very discreet in collecting your mistakes.

On the Audi, it was a bashing reason not on understeer, but more on torque steer. I dont like pedal to the metal which results in a singing steering wheel...

Cayman S....

I dont think that 6 speed / tip would have much of a price difference, just that they would both appeal to very different segements of the used car market.

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

guess your horsepower junkie thing does not need to apply to me, so I will still consider Cayman S. And for PASM, it's not to collect my mistakes but rather, to improve the ride during long boring straight roads at 200km/h

 

[R33Devil]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

guess your horsepower junkie thing does not need to apply to me, so I will still consider Cayman S. And for PASM, it's not to collect my mistakes but rather, to improve the ride during long boring straight roads at 200km/h

trust me..its like a drug..you will want the additional BHP gains of the S...I am tempted to buy one in Singapore now, but I am hoping for the RS or Clubsport version.

Good reasons in which you lay your variables out for your purchase, hope all the info here helped out...

 

[centurion]

Re: Need BMW regulars' information: BMW Z4 Coupe 3.0Si

all the info is great, thanks. I still need to know some links at least about the stupid implementation of the piezo DI to the Z4Coupe engine. I HATE it every time they do a major upgrade and I got the old one. Happened to me so many times. The DI upgrade is worth 1 additional compression ratio and about 3 mpg of gas consumption to my rough thinking. And probably 10 more horses.