How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

[waynechai]

Guys,

How does a tweeter work?
As in..is it supposed to be playing exactly the same thing as the other (mid bass, I reckon) speaker....OR, is it supposed to be playing the higher frequency sound/note only?
In the latter, one would expect to hear different thing at the different speaker?

As for the sub, if you have it in the boot, or free air, the bass is clearly coming from the back.
As oposed to music where oen can hear/feel the base, but can't tell where it is from.
Wouldn't the latter be better?
Is it possible to adjust thw base at the back to until you can't tell where the bass is from?

I mean, with the bass clearly coming from the back, it is like having the bass player in the band standing behind us, while the rest stays in front. The music just doesn't seems to be right.

Appreciate advice.
And if I sound very ignorant, sorry. I am learning....

 

[piggyboyz]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

Tweeter is usually playing anything up to 4Hz

Mid Range usually take care of 4- 40Hz

U ill need a subwoofer for anything from 10-40Hz

In order to "pull" the bass to the front and all sound as if the sound comes from the front of the car, then u will need time alignment.

Alpine got a couple of set that comes with time alignment.

 

[chickenbackside]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

That's the trouble with cars. Physical limitations.

Bass frequencies are low and those frequencies require a lot of energy and movement. Door panels seldom provide a big and solid enough base to mount speakers that push that amount of air around. That's why most cars that pump out serious bass have them mounted in their own enclosures.

Can you imagine how huge and deep your doors need to be in order to mount 1 or 2 twelve inch subs?

That's just scratching the surface of the limitations of car acoutics. How about imaging, reflections off the glass...etc?

That's why although I make a living from music, I don't believe in spending too much on ICE. A $2000 home system can easily sound better than a $10 000 ICE.

My view is that as long as you achieve decent frequency response across the spectrum, it's pretty good already.

 

[FiftyFive]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

Guys,

As for the sub, if you have it in the boot, or free air, the bass is clearly coming from the back.
As oposed to music where oen can hear/feel the base, but can't tell where it is from.
Wouldn't the latter be better?
Is it possible to adjust thw base at the back to until you can't tell where the bass is from?

I mean, with the bass clearly coming from the back, it is like having the bass player in the band standing behind us, while the rest stays in front. The music just doesn't seems to be right.

QUOTE]

HI Wayne...

Am not an expert here but have "paid" for my lessons here and there.

I had free air subs in my last ride... they were good and nice but IMHO, it just wasn't punchy enough. Am currently using boxed woofers... somehow, it is tighter and way punchier.

As for " feeling the base", there are two school of thoughts... some like to have sound staging... feeling and hearing everything in front whilst some like the surround effect.

I chose to have it in front and thus went for an active setup.... no rear speakers thus allowing the bass to flow in from the holes where the rear speakers were previously located.

With the aid of the Time Alignment function and Crossover settings from my Alpine Headunit, sound has been "processed" to feel like its all coming from the front.

I think Iceman will be able to provide you with a better perspective....

Hope this helps...

 

[waynechai]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

Thanks guys.
Indeed, I learnt abt this time alignment thing after going into some research.
But having set the low pass to the lowest, the source of the bass has become less obvious.
Barring getting a digital some processor to improve the sound staging thing, I am pretty happy.

Punchier bass....means? Hard hitting....?
A lot have been read and said about free-ar sub need lot of power. For what? To get the punchier bass? What if I do not like punchier bass, or I prefer more mellow bass due to the kind of mucic I like?
In any case, how much power is a lot?

As for the tweeter, my problem was that the installer set at +3db, and that "freak" me out. Adjusting that to -3db, I am finding the balance very good.

Having said this, some songs play really really well on my ICE, but some just okay.
Any similar experience?

 

[chickenbackside]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

That will always be the case.

If you understand the process of music production, you will know that no 2 albums will sound the same.

The recording room, mics, cables, mixing console, preamps, EQ's, reverbs, compressors, AD/DA convertors, software, recording medium (tape/hard disk)...etc and most of all the engineers behind them all make huge differences in the way an album sounds.

If you listen to older recordings from the 80's-90's, you will notice that they tend to sound warm and full cos they usually recorded real instruments, mixed on nice consoles like Neves and SSL's (million dollar mixers). The mastering also is not as hot (meaning not as loud) as they used plenty of analogue gear. These days, music is mostly done at home on a $2000 computer. That's why today's music tends to sound very bright, very bass heavy, harsh in the mids, very very loud (as they use maximiser software).

So my solution is to EQ every album, or even every song, to my own taste.

 

[bimmer71]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

Hi. With my limited knowledge,I would like to add that bass is non-directional so it is not necessary for the sub to be place in front to feel it .

Generally speaking and like what CBS has mentioned, a one-box system with a good built-in Digital to Analog converter (DAC) should do a reasonable job. A lot of the music today simply sounds too digital (too bright) and one would have listening fatique after a while. Of course, this also depends on the types of music you like (personal taste). Another important thing to note would be the recording. Agree with CBS, I would prefer to invest in a good hifi system at home rather than in a car.

 

[waynechai]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

Yup...indeed bass in non-directional. Generally right.
But I think we are talking about really low frequency bass.

Slightly higher, you can tell.
And perhaps more importantly, the relative distance the listener is from the bass and other speakers (mid, tweeter and etc) play a huge part.
For example, if you place your bass with your tweeter and mid and etc, you would not really be able tell where the bass is from.
Unless of course, they are time aligned...I think...based also on my limited knowledge and experience..

 

[Mad-Doggie]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

ok....heres some info on how the tweeter works....it is just a really small speaker...and to stop the bass-levels from reaching it...it generally has a capacitor(i think) ...thats the small black cylinder...to filter out the bass....and as for the subs....why dont you just put them under the seats?that would double up as some sort of massage....to the back ppl!....but yeah....if you put them under the seats and set them lower to avoid any discomfort(probably using a crossover or the settings on your amp)....you would be set....front seats or back...however...i am told that you can get 8" subs that are fairly flat....so i suppose those could be door mounted too...just be sure to pad them and soundproof your doors to avoid irritating bass-rattles

but anyways...
cheerz

/\/\ad-Doggie

 

[Maniax]

Re: How does a tweeter work? Sub? Technical question.

The tweeter as mentioned before handles in general frequencies of 4khz and up. The frequencies from the signal coming from your head unit(it the cd/radio player) is diverted by this thing called a crossover, which has induction cores/capacitors etc.
The tweeter itself can be made of many different materials such as aluminium, titanium, silk, fabric, and even beryllium(Focal brand), each with a different sound, in general metal ones are sharper and more focused and detailed, whereas silk and fabric ones are smoother and sweeter.
Basically there's a magnet behind this dome material, and the best ones use neodynium magnets which are strong for its small size but expensive.
The tweeters are important as it contains high frequency information, and this is what your ears use for sensing direction of sound. So if your tweeters are well placed, the "imaging" of the instruments and voice in the music will be very accurate and if you close your eyes you can place them in front of you in the correct places(like the voice in the middle, drums in the background etc etc)
Of course this can be further enhanced if your headunit(CD player/radio controller) has a function called Time Correction(mentioned before), which helps fake your ears in putting the tweeters in more ideal positions by delay the signal to that particular speaker and thus in your mind, putting the speaker "further away/nearer".

I hope this helps!