Hayden Rapid-Cool Transmission Oil Cooler
- Thread starter johnhiggin
- Start date
piggyboyz said:MRacer77 said:
Ur car has got a engine oil cooler bigger than the one installed in Wilson car liao....
As for the SMG gearbox, there are heat sink attached to the gearbox itself... Even the rear diff got a heat sink attached to it...
Oh ok... thanks... thought that this one might be more efficient though... but you say until like that then I don't need to think about this liao... Cheers!
Racebred
Core Group Members
Just did a Sepang outing, and finally for once my ATF holds up very well. With the ATF cooler installed (the smallest one), the temperature never went above 100c, which is a very remarkable thing. But I must say, i feel that most of the work goes to the original ATF HEAT SINK that comes with the car. When I routed the ATF straight to the aftermarket cooler, bypassing the original heat sink, the temp can shoot up to 110c by just stopping at the traffic lights. on the track, it shot up to 145c and by then the EGS will shut down the manual mode and give u enough power to limp back into the pits.
Without the aftermarket ATF cooler, the ATF will still go up, but at that point i did not have any temp probes installed, but I would have gone for about 20-25 PG laps before the gearchange became very jerky and power seems to be slipping.
So, recently with the ATF routed to both the original heat sink and haydn cooler, the temp stayed so nicely at below 100c, and i had no problems with the gearchange, other than slightly jerky changes towards the end of the track session.
With all my car fluids behaving very well, (water and oil temp stabilizing at 120c) I could stay out in the track for the longest period, doing more than 15 laps each time, and only pitting in when somebody buang and the track was red-flagged, or to come in and cool down my tyres a little bit, or to refuel. The rest of the car was rock solid.
I'd say if you want to track your auto car, get at least the smallest hayden cooler, and it'll be enough for the car.
i'd say i
Without the aftermarket ATF cooler, the ATF will still go up, but at that point i did not have any temp probes installed, but I would have gone for about 20-25 PG laps before the gearchange became very jerky and power seems to be slipping.
So, recently with the ATF routed to both the original heat sink and haydn cooler, the temp stayed so nicely at below 100c, and i had no problems with the gearchange, other than slightly jerky changes towards the end of the track session.
With all my car fluids behaving very well, (water and oil temp stabilizing at 120c) I could stay out in the track for the longest period, doing more than 15 laps each time, and only pitting in when somebody buang and the track was red-flagged, or to come in and cool down my tyres a little bit, or to refuel. The rest of the car was rock solid.
I'd say if you want to track your auto car, get at least the smallest hayden cooler, and it'll be enough for the car.
i'd say i
Wow!! Very nice detailed field report dude!! Kudos to U!!
I want electric fan!!!!! :angry:
'The Great White'
I want electric fan!!!!! :angry:
'The Great White'
Racebred
Core Group Members
the reason why the ATF was not routed through the original heat sink in the first place, was because it was thought that all the hot water from the engine's radiator will actually raise the temperature of the ATF.
but this thought was wrong, when it proved that the original heat sink really does stabilise the ATF temp very well. The aftermarket cooler further helps to cool the ATF and keep the temp lower, so you can go out longer. So i'd say it works when you go on extended times on the track.
on the trip back, even when i was holding on to top gear redline for several minutes, the ATF stayed below 80c due to the airflow. This is probably the most stress you can put on the tranny-- sustained redline.
but this thought was wrong, when it proved that the original heat sink really does stabilise the ATF temp very well. The aftermarket cooler further helps to cool the ATF and keep the temp lower, so you can go out longer. So i'd say it works when you go on extended times on the track.
on the trip back, even when i was holding on to top gear redline for several minutes, the ATF stayed below 80c due to the airflow. This is probably the most stress you can put on the tranny-- sustained redline.
Racebred said:
Don't mind me, sustaining a redline while you're cruising at high speed doesn't neccessary strain the tranny right? Since you're at gear + speed.
I believe high load amount on the tranny would stress it, therefore only while you're accelerating and braking, accelerating and slowing down at PG? Negative and positive acceleration since it works both ways. Afterall, you're not at your highest torque peak when you're at redline. Wouldn't that be a better comparo?
Or am i wrong here..
It is very likely that the BMW trans has a lockup which totally eliminates slip under cruising, but under top speed cruising which is actually continual full loading it might decouple to try multiplying torque again and accelerate further or sustain a speed. This is dependent on gearing, power, and what the engineers have programmed into it.
Lower RPM and uncoupled, there is definitely more % of total input energy wasted as heat, but high RPM and coupled or close to coupled, the input energy is much higher (higher fluid pressure resist the higher amounts of torque at higher RPM), yet % lost as heat is much lower. To find out which situation thermally loads the ATF more, we need to know exactly what the couple is doing (% slip) at different loads, different RPM, different speeds (very likely a 3D map but probably not very complex) and then we need someone who loves crunching numbers to work it all out (including how much cooling there is at those speeds). It is the first part which is tricky, not the calculations.
But RB has already given us the numbers which show that track work with all the coupling and decoupling and kinetic energy shed not by aero drag which contributes to cooling, but by braking - yield the highest ATF temps. On the highway there was so much airspeed that cooling was good. I also tend to believe that the converter losses (if any - since the 80C reading probably was thermal inertia and/or conduction from the engine) more than make up for the large power inputs by just sending it straight to the wheels more or less.
So I believe both of you have the right ideas going.
Lower RPM and uncoupled, there is definitely more % of total input energy wasted as heat, but high RPM and coupled or close to coupled, the input energy is much higher (higher fluid pressure resist the higher amounts of torque at higher RPM), yet % lost as heat is much lower. To find out which situation thermally loads the ATF more, we need to know exactly what the couple is doing (% slip) at different loads, different RPM, different speeds (very likely a 3D map but probably not very complex) and then we need someone who loves crunching numbers to work it all out (including how much cooling there is at those speeds). It is the first part which is tricky, not the calculations.
But RB has already given us the numbers which show that track work with all the coupling and decoupling and kinetic energy shed not by aero drag which contributes to cooling, but by braking - yield the highest ATF temps. On the highway there was so much airspeed that cooling was good. I also tend to believe that the converter losses (if any - since the 80C reading probably was thermal inertia and/or conduction from the engine) more than make up for the large power inputs by just sending it straight to the wheels more or less.
So I believe both of you have the right ideas going.
we all have so much we have to learn man...
up to about the 1530s a man, if he wanted to, in his lifetime could learn everything that the whole of humanity knew. But today, there is just so much info that a man is lucky to possess just one tenth of a thousandth of it by the end of his life. so it's just the little areas we choose.
up to about the 1530s a man, if he wanted to, in his lifetime could learn everything that the whole of humanity knew. But today, there is just so much info that a man is lucky to possess just one tenth of a thousandth of it by the end of his life. so it's just the little areas we choose.
Get your fluid temp gauges. Go lapping, check temps. If temps are high, get fluid-to-air coolers (like hayden,etc) for the respective fluids. that's all 
actually NS and all the other M3 guys will be able to tell you straight away since they've tracked alot.
actually NS and all the other M3 guys will be able to tell you straight away since they've tracked alot.
Racebred
Core Group Members
i guess for now, look at your lap times, and try to maximise what a stock m3 can do. those with experience also took some time, and maybe paid for some track coaching, to break 2.50 barrier. so once you can break the 2.50 mark, u can try on 1) brakes, 2) coilovers, 3)semislicks. then with these, you should be aiming for low 240s. With more experience, you may break the 240 mark. Then that's about maxing out the m3 already.
intake and exhaust like gruppe m and eisenmann gives you marginal power, and may not translate to even 1 second on the track. another radical mod, will be a GT wing. put it on during the track days, and with semi slicks, it should get you through corners like 5 & 6, and 12 & 13 very very quickly. And these are the sweeping corners where you'll be able to chiet everybody else struggling without downforce.
i may be wrong about all these, best is to let the m3 meisters speak their experience. why dont you join us this national day? it'll be fun. come ok?
intake and exhaust like gruppe m and eisenmann gives you marginal power, and may not translate to even 1 second on the track. another radical mod, will be a GT wing. put it on during the track days, and with semi slicks, it should get you through corners like 5 & 6, and 12 & 13 very very quickly. And these are the sweeping corners where you'll be able to chiet everybody else struggling without downforce.
i may be wrong about all these, best is to let the m3 meisters speak their experience. why dont you join us this national day? it'll be fun. come ok?
Shaun : Thanks....think that's the one that I am kind of looking for
At Sepang 1mth ago and my oil temp went up to 120 after doing every 5laps of run..It's kind of normal coz most of the guys I spoke to had the same situation. Need to get a better cooling system so I can do more laps (perhaps 10) without too much worry.
RB : Thanks input too....
Yeah one of those things you mentioned above is coming soon ( surely not the GT wing thou)
I do believe that a better brake, suspension and tires (semi or even full) ,..one can hit better lap time. It speaks for itself.
I will try to make it on the National Day..
At Sepang 1mth ago and my oil temp went up to 120 after doing every 5laps of run..It's kind of normal coz most of the guys I spoke to had the same situation. Need to get a better cooling system so I can do more laps (perhaps 10) without too much worry.
RB : Thanks input too....
Yeah one of those things you mentioned above is coming soon ( surely not the GT wing thou)
I do believe that a better brake, suspension and tires (semi or even full) ,..one can hit better lap time. It speaks for itself.
I will try to make it on the National Day..
Racebred
Core Group Members
actually for a sensitive engine like the M3's, you should consider proper gauges to give you water, engine oil, exhaust temp, and oil pressure. so you'll have a peace of mind when doing mods or at the track. your oil temp goes to 120, but does it stabilise there or increase further? if it stabilises at 120, shouldnt be a problem, coz that's my oil temp too.
