Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

dsdfan

Well-Known Member
Last week I switched from IS250 to E90 325. It has been interesting comparing the differences between their gear shift patterns

The Lexus seems to favour high gears. To reduce speed slightly, the driver can release the accelerator and the car is able to coast freely for quite a distance since it is in 5th or 6th gear. The computer downshifts only when the car is about to come to a complete stop, so the gears hardly have any braking effect.

In contrast, the 325 favours lower gears, even in regular D mode. This has a pronounced braking effect once the accelerator is released. So when reducing speed slightly, the accelerator still needs to be depressed, albeit to a lesser extent, or the car will lose speed too rapidly.

The advantage of the 325's tendency to favour lower gears is better acceleration, quicker response, more precise speed control, and reduced brake wear (since low gears help brake the car). However, this also implies higher fuel usage since the low gears don't allow the car to coast freely.

Is there some special trick in manipulating the accelerator to avoid this?

The IS250 in "ECT Power" mode employs lower gears, which comes close the gearshift pattern of the 325 in regular D mode. I will try the 325 in S mode after the engine breaks in.

Otherwise, driving the two cars one after the other is a real study in contrasts.

Everyone already knows how different these two rivals are, but here's another 1st hand perspective.

Lexus is about a soft, comfortable and quiet ride. It is designed to float you above the road. The controls on the Lexus feel more luxurious to operate. The IS does feel powerful to drive and confident on the road, but finer driving dynamics are blunted and sacrificed to increase comfort and so you feel imperturbed by the world around (and the road underneath). The IS250 feels heavier and more sluggish, which is a plus point for those who seek a graceful and stable drive. Many people would prefer the Lexus. It coddles your body and makes you feel relaxed and pampered. It cushions you from the roughness of the road surface.

The 325 is a world apart in its sharp handling and anchored roadholding (helped by 18" staggered wheels.) The In-line 6 sounds more aggressive than Lexus' gentlemanly V6, but the inline 6 certainly feels more responsive and muscular; more of a savage beast than a domesticated pet. It is literally a "different animal". Helped by a much lighter body, the 325 is far more dynamic in character. Although its ride is not as bouncy and its engine noise is more instrusive, I do relish sensing more tactile feedback from the road and receiving aural feedback from the engine. It provides a more engaging driving experience.

Although they are often compared, the two cars achieve very different goals. While the Lexus is ideal for the passive driver who values effortless driving, the e90 is definitely the active drivers' choice. I now realise I've been a BMW driver driving a Lexus for the past three years.

That said, the 325 does not go to extremes. It does have a more luxury, comfort and silence than pure sports cars, while same time offering a substantial sportiness quotient.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

If I'm not wrong, your BMW has adaptive transmission control which will adapt to your driving style after a while. Probably still won't be as smooth as Lexus when slowing down.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

Dsdfan, thank you for the insightful 1st hand report as owner of both! In fact on spec, they are a close call:

325i - 218bhp, 250Nm
IS250 - 208bhp, 252Nm

By the way, JuzMe, when you mention "adaptive" transmission control, then say after Dsdfan has own this 325i for few year when the can has adapted to not applying engine brake; and if he then sell the car to me where I prefer more engine brake, what should I do to make it "adapt" to it??

Just wonder...
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

JuzMe;387741 said:
Need to reset. This seems to work for E46 models, not sure have some sort of similar tip for E90.
http://www.bmw-sg.com/forums/bmw-singapore-motoring-life/26606-improving-steptronic-shifts-3.html

Thanks JuzMe for the tip!:) Wonder any bros there ever does that on their E90:screwedu: That would be very useful for new owner buying over a pre-loved Beemer.

Any bros know if that works for E90?

Btw, since E90 come with 2 keys, then would the ECU recognise the different pattern of the 2 keyholders and apply different "adaptive transmission" accordingly? :screwedu:
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

Hi Skanps,

The memory functions of the 2 keys only serve to remember seat and side mirros positions. Do not think they will cause the car to adapt to prevailing driving styles.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

dsdfan,

I currently own a E90 325i and have previously tested the IS250. Though the IS has a more silent engine, I cannot help but feel that the bimmers suspensions are more adaptable and compliant to uneven road surfaces....typical of a continental car.

Wanted to know your thoughts on that.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

The adaptive transmission control only works within certain parameters. It will not change totally to suit your driving style but it tries its best, within its limits.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

SilkySmooth6;387812 said:
Hi Skanps,

The memory functions of the 2 keys only serve to remember seat and side mirros positions. Do not think they will cause the car to adapt to prevailing driving styles.

I also thihk this is the case but consider ECU is like a computer, why cant it recognise the pattern of the 2 key holders and apply accordingly?:screwedu:

So the reset method also works for E90? Interested in knowing cause lately changed from a E90 320i to also to a pre-loved E90 325i. Since then, I realise that the 320i has a much stronger engine brake once acc pedel is released while, the 325i glides at high gear for a much longer time before engaging engine brake - a finding contrary to Dsdfan. Figure the odd is that DSDfan's 325i is new (like when I was having my new 320i) where by factory default the engine brake is more ready to engage; while for mine, the previous owner has probably "trained" the ECU to apply the engine brake less with more high gear gliding??:screwedu:
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

The ECU understands the driving pattern of a driver over a period of time. It does not adapt base on a couple of drives. Also, I doubt it is sophisticated enough to make switches every which way.

The weaker engine break you feel from the 325i is probably due to the smoother in line 6 engine as suppose to the in line 4. Personally I did not feel the differences between both 325 and 320. DSDfan's experience of a stronger engine break on the 325 is because he is pitting it against the IS250. Lexus/Toyota's have a reputation of tremendous glide long after the pedal has been released. Hence its a matter of DSDfan's perception against yours.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

SilkySmooth6;387815 said:
dsdfan,

I currently own a E90 325i and have previously tested the IS250. Though the IS has a more silent engine, I cannot help but feel that the bimmers suspensions are more adaptable and compliant to uneven road surfaces....typical of a continental car.

Wanted to know your thoughts on that.

It is a strange thing. Although firmer than in regular cars, the IS250 suspension is more soft and bouncy compared to the E90. While it cushions the driver from road bumps, this "bounciness" blurs your sense of the road because the suspension springs back and forth when encountering a bump. The movement is not damped immediately.

In the e90 however, the suspension always transmits a thrilling sense of feedback from the road surface. Although the E90 ride is firm, precise and well damped (never bouncy like the IS250), it is also strangely comfortable and smooth. The ride is never jarring, violent and bumpy like in low quality GT's.

This is the miracle of the BMW suspension performing its magic. It is "adaptable and compliant to uneven road surfaces" without hiding them. It proves that a suspension does not have to be soft and bouncy to provide a comfortable ride. It also demonstrates you can have a comfortable and thrilling driving experience at the same time.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

dsdfan;387847 said:
It is a strange thing. Although firmer than in regular cars, the IS250 suspension is more soft and bouncy compared to the E90. While it cushions the driver from road bumps, this "bounciness" blurs your sense of the road because the suspension springs back and forth when encountering a bump. The movement is not damped immediately.

In the e90 however, the suspension always transmits a thrilling sense of feedback from the road surface. Although the E90 ride is firm, precise and well damped (never bouncy like the IS250), it is also strangely comfortable and smooth. The ride is never jarring, violent and bumpy like in low quality GT's.

This is the miracle of the BMW suspension performing its magic. It is "adaptable and compliant to uneven road surfaces" without hiding them. It proves that a suspension does not have to be soft and bouncy to provide a comfortable ride. It also demonstrates you can have a comfortable and thrilling driving experience at the same time.

I cannot agree more DSDfan. Personally the suspension that best soaks bumps is the C class.....superb i tellya.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

Thanks for sharing, DSDfans.

I have always wanted to learn more about the differences between the two.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

It was a close fight between the 2 when I was deciding between the 2. Till today the IS250 still leaves a strong impression on me.

Any thoughts guys?
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

skanps;387820 said:
So the reset method also works for E90? Interested in knowing cause lately changed from a E90 320i to also to a pre-loved E90 325i. Since then, I realise that the 320i has a much stronger engine brake once acc pedel is released while, the 325i glides at high gear for a much longer time before engaging engine brake - a finding contrary to Dsdfan. Figure the odd is that DSDfan's 325i is new (like when I was having my new 320i) where by factory default the engine brake is more ready to engage; while for mine, the previous owner has probably "trained" the ECU to apply the engine brake less with more high gear gliding??:screwedu:

I have experienced something similar, moving from a e46 6cyl to the e90 320. I felt that when releasing the accel pedal, the 320 has a stronger engine brake feel. Feels like it's slowing down more, wheras when releasing the accel pedal on the 6 cyl models, the car "cruises" more.

don't think it's any issue with age of your car, maybe engine torque levels? but definitely a difference b/w the 4 cyl and 6 cyl models.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

motorknut;388377 said:
I have experienced something similar, moving from a e46 6cyl to the e90 320. I felt that when releasing the accel pedal, the 320 has a stronger engine brake feel. Feels like it's slowing down more, wheras when releasing the accel pedal on the 6 cyl models, the car "cruises" more.

don't think it's any issue with age of your car, maybe engine torque levels? but definitely a difference b/w the 4 cyl and 6 cyl models.

Thanks for sharing; think it could be the diff between the 4-pot and 6-pot; or BMW has set the ECU differently for the engagement of engine brake for 4/6 pot....so a matter to adapt to...

Cheers!
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

dsdfan;387579 said:
Last week I switched from IS250 to E90 325. It has been interesting comparing the differences between their gear shift patterns

The Lexus seems to favour high gears. To reduce speed slightly, the driver can release the accelerator and the car is able to coast freely for quite a distance since it is in 5th or 6th gear. The computer downshifts only when the car is about to come to a complete stop, so the gears hardly have any braking effect.

In contrast, the 325 favours lower gears, even in regular D mode. This has a pronounced braking effect once the accelerator is released. So when reducing speed slightly, the accelerator still needs to be depressed, albeit to a lesser extent, or the car will lose speed too rapidly.

The advantage of the 325's tendency to favour lower gears is better acceleration, quicker response, more precise speed control, and reduced brake wear (since low gears help brake the car). However, this also implies higher fuel usage since the low gears don't allow the car to coast freely.

Is there some special trick in manipulating the accelerator to avoid this?

The IS250 in "ECT Power" mode employs lower gears, which comes close the gearshift pattern of the 325 in regular D mode. I will try the 325 in S mode after the engine breaks in.

Otherwise, driving the two cars one after the other is a real study in contrasts.

Everyone already knows how different these two rivals are, but here's another 1st hand perspective.

Lexus is about a soft, comfortable and quiet ride. It is designed to float you above the road. The controls on the Lexus feel more luxurious to operate. The IS does feel powerful to drive and confident on the road, but finer driving dynamics are blunted and sacrificed to increase comfort and so you feel imperturbed by the world around (and the road underneath). The IS250 feels heavier and more sluggish, which is a plus point for those who seek a graceful and stable drive. Many people would prefer the Lexus. It coddles your body and makes you feel relaxed and pampered. It cushions you from the roughness of the road surface.

The 325 is a world apart in its sharp handling and anchored roadholding (helped by 18" staggered wheels.) The In-line 6 sounds more aggressive than Lexus' gentlemanly V6, but the inline 6 certainly feels more responsive and muscular; more of a savage beast than a domesticated pet. It is literally a "different animal". Helped by a much lighter body, the 325 is far more dynamic in character. Although its ride is not as bouncy and its engine noise is more instrusive, I do relish sensing more tactile feedback from the road and receiving aural feedback from the engine. It provides a more engaging driving experience.

Although they are often compared, the two cars achieve very different goals. While the Lexus is ideal for the passive driver who values effortless driving, the e90 is definitely the active drivers' choice. I now realise I've been a BMW driver driving a Lexus for the past three years.

That said, the 325 does not go to extremes. It does have a more luxury, comfort and silence than pure sports cars, while same time offering a substantial sportiness quotient.

Hi bro,

just my 2 cents,......

as u've mentioned, e 325 seems to have more "engine braking" and this might be due to the dynamic brake system which I've learned from one of the SE...

that is one of the additional feature that u get from a 325. as u release ur throttle, the brake starts to engage into a standby mode so that it will give u a ready to stop effect aka (6 pots). unlike atandard braking systems, this intelligent brakes system allow ur brake pads to come closer in contact wif ur rotors so as to create an effective braking.

goes e same when u r going down e slopes...... it also work during raining day/wet roads.....

I do not foresee if there is anyway to manipulate e engine braking thingy as if it is not due to the braking system, it mainly comes from e gear ratio and engine characteristic.

as for the roaring of a 325 engines, I guess it is contributed from the non-sound proof hood.... I kind of realised that comparing to a 5 series, the 325 comes without a hood sound proof. try poping ur hood, u should be able to see the difference. (pardon me if I'm wrong as this is wat i see in the showroom car and it might vary from the earlier batch)

I'm a little different from u as i've been driving a 2 stroker wif extreme engine braking and now having to settle down wif something more gentle and subtle.......

guess we all will get use to after a while.......:laughlik:

cheers
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

I had the same dilemna as you when I was choosing between IS250 and 325i...

The final decision test came when I asked the sales rep for another test drive - this time was to go along the South Buona Vista road and up the Kent Ridge Park to really test the road holding and torque. They rejected the route and claimed it was their company's policy... went to PML... they took me wherever I want and do whatever I want with the car...

That totally sold me - 325i! :)
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

Lexus cannot test along 99-bends ? What kinda policy is that.
 
Re: Auto Gear-shift Pattern: IS250 vs E90 325

dariusfan;390793 said:
The final decision test came when I asked the sales rep for another test drive - this time was to go along the South Buona Vista road and up the Kent Ridge Park to really test the road holding and torque. They rejected the route and claimed it was their company's policy...
:)

They did allow me to take the IS250 along South Buona Vista road three years ago. A few days earlier, I had taken an E90 320i down the same route. IS250 handled the curves far better than your usual sedan, with a touch of softness, but the e90 rooted itself to the road like a train on tracks while tearing around the bends.
 

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