Anybody upgraded their HU or added a signal processor to E46

Jin

New Member
any like-minded ICE enthusiast around?
don't really wanna change HU coz it looks kind crap in the set-up.
 
My friend, keeping the original look means $$$.

On afterthought, may seem a little over the top. The Professional CD player costs $1800. That is quite a lot of money to fork out. Can probable do a simple system in the mid range quality for that money.

When sell car just put back stock radio.
 
No shit man, freaking professional cost like S$1800 at PML, that's a shit load $$$. Could get a good amp plus speakers for that kind of dough man.

Yeah. was looking at the PXA H701 w RUX C701 for SQ to be fitted to original stock, abt $1500++, still better off than professional CD player. Thinking of a way to hide the damn head unit for RUX C701.

Am sure that the SQ will improve tremendously w this mod.

Has anybody ventured there?

I do know that the Alpine 9835 has similar functions such as dsp, time alignment stuff, crossover, preout shit, but just not willing to change the HU, too much trouble, eg. losing mulit-steering wheel function, losing oem look, getting pesky adaptor, etc.

Please feed me with more inputs. Thanks
 
Forgot to add, I'm more of a SPL sort. But however, apart from R&B Hip Hop, I do listen to Jazz to soothe my totally stressed out mind after a day's work. Pretty much a Jack of All, in terms of music choices.
 
You telling me...... already bought the damn professional CD player and fitted it in. As a little field report, i must say that the SQ did improve a little as the HU does give more oomph..

But overall i would say that changing the speakers would contribute a greater factor for a lot less $$. The rear speakers is the same as the front door ones and without the tweeter. Choose a pair of 6.5" components for the front and a pair of co-axial 2-3 ways 6.5" for the rear. Very cheap economical upgrade.
 
Hi ! Yendor.

When you mentioned choose a pair of 6.5" components for the front and a pair of co-axial 2-3 ways 6.5" for the rear. Very cheap economical upgrade.

My question, do you think the standard Headunit of the E46 has enough power to drive New Pair of Front and Rear Speaker without installing amps ?
 
Hi BMWSilver

What you look out for is speaker efficiency. Anything above 90dB/w @1m is efficient enough for the stock 10W/channel to drive.

That is to say with 1W of power, the speaker will produce 90dB of volume at 1 meter distance. 115 dB is equal to a car horn. A person shouting is about 95dB or so. With 4 times the electrcal power, your get twice the volume.

Consider this if you want to create a basic "stock looking" system.

A point to note is that that the professional series of radios produce 20W per channel.

Cheers
 
I would beware of underpowering speakers. 10w/ch (OMG, that's quite low!) is sufficient for the cheapo original speakers, but upgraded ones may demand more.

Interestingly, the number one killer of speakers is... underpowering. What happens is that if you fit some speakers that are less efficient than the stock ones (which are damn easy to drive), your built in amp will have to work harder, doubly as hard to drive your new speakers. of course, you'll naturally crank up the volume to listen more of 'the good stuff' that enhanced spk is now producing.

When stressed to the limit, the little amp inside your headunit will start to clip. When the signal clips... its essentially a flat line DC voltage instead. This DC voltage goes across your voice coil... and your voice coil will start to heat up very rapidly, coz its like a short circuit. After a while, the coil will burn burn a little more and more, and then you get the familiar pock pock kinda sound, or your vocals can start to sound scratchy or cracked.

For this reason, you see most good speakers really place emphasis on cooling of the voice coil - the vented hole in the centre of the rear plate.

Its much better to add a simple baby amp (maybe 2x20W, 2x40W RMS power) to go with these upgraded speakers. The amp doesn't cost much coz its so small, can drive the speakers for much better sound, and can be neatly tucked into the dashboard or under the front seat.
 
Iceman, i beg to differ

You are right about underpowering being very scratchy sounding but when the signal starts to clip, DC is not generated but rather extra harmonics are generated which lead to funny cone excursions. The problem with underpowering is that the amps' output transistors burn out due to the loading. Power dissipaton is defined as the area under the curve and a clipped signal has less power content compared to a signal with a full swing Voice coils burn out due to overpowering i.e. 100w of power forced down a speaker capable of 50W handling. Of course assuming that you are really blasting away.....

At this point it is important to note that overpowering a speaker sounds very good when played at moderate levels as the amp has enough capacity to not only drive the cone out put also pull it back in. Much like a 5 liter engine in a 3 series. (take off in 3rd gear and potter around town in 5th and still out accelerate everybody else)

It all boils down to speaker efficiency. If you get very efficient speakers (about 93-95 dB/w @1m) everday listening will not require very much power (about 2w or less). The problem with efficient speakers is that they do not produce very good bass as their cones are usually very light and the electromotive force from the voice coil is not enough to generate a meaningful sound pressure wave both infront of the cone and behind it.

So in short life is a compromise......you want light, cheap and stock looking.....then this is the best way out. Got more money want more sound, add amp and other stuff....IMHO

Cheers,
 
Still agree with your point on efficient speakers. That's the best way out if no amp is added.

My thesis on the underpowering is based on what I learn from these competitors when going for SPL challenge. They burn subs like no one else, and more often than not, its underpowering.

Take a scope, and max out yr sine wave amplitude. The top and bottom clips, and you have DC, and current starts to flow. I haven't done it on a real amp and speaker before and watched results...

But I blew 2 pairs of Kicker freeair 8"s mounted in my rear passenger doors. Although door was beavily soundproofed, it wasn't so much of a sealed box that is absolutely airtight. I consider it as 30% freeair. My amp had only 50W per channel. I dropped it to 2 ohms and got approx 100W into each of them, at this high load.

I blew each set of speakers within 3 months. It wasn't really that much blasting... most of the work was done by the 15" in a sealed box in the boot.

But yes, I do agree with you that overpowering will of course blow speakers! Imagine hooking up a 500W monoblock and play rockets with papercone speakers!

I was just thinking, while he's adding a set of speakers, why not plonk in a small baby amp. Cheap, and hidden out of the way. Rewards are much more.
 
Hi Iceman...

I will attempt to explain this phenomenon.

Electrically, when a sine wave clips, the tops and bottom of the waves become flat. When the signal becomes clipped, odd harmonics are generated off. Mathematically, if you add infinite numbers of odd harmonics together, you achieve the ideal square wave. (maths guys, please correct me if i am wrong)

In an amplifier, the filtering for low pass signals happen before the amplification stage. thus when the amps clip, it is the power stage that clamps the output signal to the maximum amplitude of the power supply voltage rails. This produces the harmonics that go through to the speaker. (This settles the harmonics part)

With the generation of odd harmonics, the higher harmonics add and subtract to the original wave and giving the clipped signal. it is the generation of many harmonics of the complex bass signal that kills the sub as all the various frequencies try and move the coil. Of course the sub cannot sing like a mid or tweeter so the coil does not move to the higher harmonics and you also cannot hear these harmonics. ( this settles the movement of the cone part)

The main job of the speaker is to convert electrical energy to mechanical energy. As a by-product of the laws of efficiency, some heat is generated due to the resistance of the voice coil (at DC) and impedance of the coil ( at AC which is what music is). As the coil is unable to move at the higher frequencies, the impedance of the voice coil goes down as the coils does not move through the magnetic field but rather stay static. So when the impedence goes down, current goes up and the whole coil heats up due to the V=IR and P=IV rules. So voice coil melts and goes kaput.

Now to explain the DC part in your reply, an Alternating current is just a varying DC voltage that goes in one way first then the other way the next. When viewing through an oscilloscope, the moment the signal increases past zero potential, current flows. Therefore when the signal clips, it is in fact recieveing less voltage than originally planned for during the design of the amplifier gain factor. When you integrate a sine signal, the area under the curve gives the power of the signal so with the top chopped off, the available power is actually lesser.

Hope this clarifies things.. :)

And yes, if he could, adding a small amp is probably a wise bet as the extra headroom offered by the external amp goes a longer way to control the cone excursion. May I suggest the Sony X-plod series that have a high level input to ease installation cost. Try to go for the real "made in japan" stuff. I believe there are only 2 models available. a 2 channel 2x50w (xm502Z) RRP$149 and 4 channel 4x50w (xm504z) RRP$299. The other amps are all made in PRC stuff. I am using the older model of these guys in my other car and i must say, for the price, they are really quite good. Kinda like value for money.
 
Ah... you are using the Sony XM2020? Nice baby amp. I had the XM4040 years ago, and was still fooling around with the XES M3. Nice amps! I'm not sure if the Xplod is made in japan though, if its top range, it probably is.

Quote of the day from car audio source:

"Under-powering a subwoofer is as bad, if not worse than over powering it. Excessive distortion from a over-driven small amp can quarter the life of a subwoofer. "

Its very commonly known that underpowering subs will shorten the lifespan. Ok, granted that I'm talking about subs, but maybe not mid ranges. Based on the fact that the theory of operation is the same... I would think it applies too.

Having played with 8s, 10s, 12s, 15s and blown quite a few, I practically proved it for myself too.

Case in point - remember about my 3 month lifespan 8" woofers. Any interesting scenario.

I had 800W rms @ 2ohms going into a pair of 12" Inifnity Perfect 12.1. First application was a nice sealed box. The subs were ok. Pumping real hard like never before, SPL comp style. This was in a saloon car.

Interesting thing... subs are rated 350W RMS each. But when I tried going with only 300W, the bass was... yeeeck. soft and limp. Pumping 400W... it suddenly came to life, and giving very very healthy sounds! I reconfirmed that prolonged periods of going with that plock plock sound from underpowering would soon kill the sub. Surprised to fix the problem by simply upping the wattage.

When I switched to a coupe, I had the same setup, but tried to go freeair this time. Of course, freeair needs loads more power than sealed box. My woofers died within 2 months! seems that the sub wasn't powerful enuff to control the excursions, and was clipping and hence underpowering. Voice coil burn.

I didn't dare to believe. Spent money to buy similar woofers, and did a straight replacement. New pair died within 4.5 months. Wa lau. Confirm plus stamp liao!

Harmonics.. area under curve, all that... I return to my acoustic engineering and engineering simulation teacher already,... but just contributing from experience and the practical side of things...

Your analysis is very clear, I like it. :dance:
 
Nope just a freak.... ryan can confirm it... :errr: :errr: Shaun can attest to my wierdness...

I have a few loves such as cars, girls, cars, science, cars, electronics, cars and mechanical stuff.

oops OOT liao.... :naughty:
 
So has anybody ever upgraded their stock HU with the Alpine RUX 701 and C 701 digital sound processor. Please share experiences.

Think this would put u down at abt $1400 ++ including installation.

Heard that it gives 5.1 channel digital surround sound and allows u to keep stock look in the dash. Before indulging in the above or going that route, would hope to hear feedback from those who've done it before.
 
MaVrk,

Hi .. some enthusiast recommend the 701 processor if u have to choose only between a processor and a HU. Its arguable cos some tells u that u shud change the HU first. I know i haven't answered your question but jus sharing what i've heard from "experts".

A processor gives u easier control. For instance For TA, press the TA button. For x-over, press that X-over button. GEQ, PEQ, DEFEAT also same. Choose channels with channel button, enter is enter.
L/R independent 31 band GEQ, independent 5 band PEQ, independent x-over, 8 channels allows 3 way front, plus sub. Can go to A/V and decode DTS and dolby digital signals. Can select each speaker phase separately, and can turn off each set independently. Non clipping HU, so u get a clean signal even at max volume.
 
Recently chanced upon a Clarion DSP at Sim Lim Square, supposed to be quite hi-end. Has anybody heard about it?

Also, was recommended Audio Control EQ, abt $1000 plus. Feedback pls. Cheers.
 
U wud get better feedback at the ICE DIY Forum...cos those there live and breathe ICE.

I personally dont think u need the Audio Control EQ.
 

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