Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

[Ahbengdriver]

Need whatever advices here. Involved in a very minor accident but now the other party is lying to his insurer who had refused my claims.

brief description of accident:
Was stationery at the middle of a 3 lane road and like many cars was waiting to drive off when traffic light turned green. Going at ard 2/30m/h only, this stupid car on my right [driver must be talking on HP or something] drifted in and knocked my left rear. damge is not severe, only rear bumper dented n side panel scratched. bumper was replaced and panel resprayed at PML as car was under warranty .

The driver of other car was actually not the car owner[found out later]. anyway, on advice of PML, submit my claim thru my insurer AVIVA to the other side, NTUC. Now they are claiming that I was instead the one who cut into their lane and caused the damage. ie they lied.

Very pissed. what shld I do? cant they tell from damage of both cars whos the culprit.?

Any advice is appreciated? BTW I had no o/s NCB so shld I just leave it?

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

I posted a mini insurance guide here ...

http://forum.carma.com.sg/showthread.php?t=1228946&highlight=insurance

excerpts:

You father has the option to:
1) Claim from his own insurance (own claim), or
2) Claim from back car insurance (3rd party claim), or
3) Both
Everything is based on law. Insurance is like contract only, but contract don't override law unless expressly specified.
Claim from own insurance is easiest. He will temporarily lose NCD (insurance discount), but if later your father's own insurance company claim from the back car's insurance company successful or success in establishing that 85% of the fault is in the back car's fault, then... Great. He should get his NCD restored. If he don't I'll be surprised and I'll sue the insurance company. BUT you may have to pay the insurance excess, maybe S$1K.
If you don't want to temporarily lose NCD, you can claim from the back car as third party claim. But this is a difficult process, require lawyer (I can recommend if you want), and require you to repair out of your own pocket first then you can claim from 3rd party. This process is academically the correct way, and you don't lose your NCD. For me, if my repair bill something I can afford, I will do it this way. But I am experienced in this and know the general principles, your father may not. This one, you no need to pay excess.
You are a budding lawyer, your statements are common sense and sensible. If it is the back car fault, he should pay for rental when yours is being repaired. Pls check your own insurance terms whether they give complimentary car when yours in repair. if not, YOU CAN CLAIM FROM THE BACK CAR OR THE BACK CAR'S INSURANCE. Yes you can. You need a lawyer. Most probably you no need to pay the lawyer, the lawyer will claim from the back car's insurance company. This is called LOSS OF USE claim.
You know what, if you choose to claim own insurance, you CAN CLAIM THE EXCESS FROM THE BACK CAR OR BACK CAR INSURANCE ALSO in addition to your own claim insurance.
LOL, pls remember this post to see what you can do!

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

if you want a lawyer for this pls email your request to [email protected] and I will recommend you the best one to my knowledge.

Since I am a member of the bar also, have to maintain anti-touting decorum...

Note that I will not recommend myself or anyone which I have an economic interest in.....

 

[Ahbengdriver]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

Thanks Mike,
I ve spoken to PML and they advise that they cannot proceed further since the other side is rejecting my claim. Their suggestion is to get a lawyer for this, one has been suggested. The price mentioned to me is ard $300 to $500 and this guy shld be sending a letter to the 3rd party insurer to ask for $$$. I was also told that from multiple experiences dealing with the party that they have been able to offer like 20 to 50% sharing of cost.

But i mean, WTF. Here I got someone who hit me from behind out of no where, lied, and caused me inconvenience. Short if plucking his balls off the next time I see him, what is the best action from here? I am not gonna let this C.A.B [ yes he looks more beng than me for sure] walk away like that.

errr...u gotta gud lawyer to recommend ?

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

HAHA! These bastards will lie and lie and lie. Nobody can stop them.

I recommend that any accident, pls try to record down any conversation. So lie also no use.

 

[mistraele]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

the problem with accidents like this, is that in the absence of independent witnesses, it can be difficult to prove your case 100%.
if you take this case to court, to protect your NCD, it may well be that you get some money back, but not the whole amount.
the vast majority of accident cases are settled at the sub courts dispute resolution centre and most commonly, in cases like this, the claimant may on average accept anything from 50-80% of his claim..

you will be surprised at the kind of "stories" drivers come up with. i once had a case, where the car was PARKED in a open car park lot and this other car reversed into him. the owner happened to be looking out so he saw what happened and got the details. when we got the other sides police report, he claimed my client was driving behind him and rear ended him when he stopped for a hump! of course, with no witnesses, this case would normally have probably settled at 50/50. but luckily, the accident survey showed damage to my clients rear axle, which would not have happened if the other sides version of events was correct..

im not saying you shouldnt sue, but you should do your sums carefully.
i.e. how much is accident cost, how much is excess, and weigh it up on the basis u might not recover 100%. dont forget, you may also have to top up your lawyers fees as well.

the other alternative, and this is something quite commonly practised, is to go to a workshop that handles these claims.. what these workshops will normally do is to repair the car for u, then claim (in your name) against the offender. these workshops normally have their own lawyers and they will settle all the costs etc for u...

in this case, u wont see a single $. the workshop will take back 100% of the amount recovered..
but - u get ur repairs done for free.

 

[pingman]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

ah beng. i kena a cuckoo driver similar way as ur case before 3 yr ago at marina square with my lexus. he kiss my left side and rear using his right. somemore refuse to give particulars (likely not his car). so i resorted to take photo of damages, his face, and another witness car plate onsite.

next got my lawyer to sue instantly with photo evidence and favorite workshop to start repair work. i also submit report to my insurer and inform them that if the opposite party makes 'funny' story to claim, inform me immediately so that i can take further action. the whole thing took about 2 to 3 months and total bill is 4k+ claimed from opposite party insurance. lawyer fees was about 1k+, the rest is repair for left doors and rear end.

i think nowadays, idac and all the new ruling, plus i presume if u dont have onsite evidence, i would say it is best not to waste time claiming opposite party if it is a minor damage. because if the insurance claim turned out 50/50 share between both party, u will stand to lose even more $ and time too. worst, ur 50% NCD+5% merit bonus maybe affected too if the opposite party can TCSS very well.

BTW. did u say PML give u free repair because it is under warranty? i thought accident is not under warranty claim?

 

[Raffles]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

end of the day, auNTy lUCy wants to collect $$$ but dont want 2 pay. poor chap like me have to settle for their XX% vs YY% in favour of me but still fork out a nice 4 digit figure....

 

[michaeltan]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

By the way, the principle I am fighting is not only against the driver. It's against the insurance company if they are guilty of any irregularity.

If there is any possibility that the insurance company is manufacturing the lies, I myself would pursue this to the end to make sure that I do my bit to prevent this happening.

If the lies were manufactured by the PERSON, then this action will put things right.

I have trust in the system. Let the system decide the final circumstances.

 

[totoseow]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

met wif similar circumstance 3-4 yrs back. i can tell u the end result. it will be a stalemate. end of the day both of u will end up losers. lan lan case if u dun hv anything written down n signed.

 

[pingman]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

indeed LPPL. insurance companies are unable to pursuit to extend of law system to know whether jokers are lying or not. not even to the extend of lie detector. waste of time for everyone - in the end, 50/50% is the case.

hence that is why i get ready my ultimate KS joker prevention system on my ride now.

1. real-time surveillance camera on all the time to capture any jokers zhump brake or illegal cut into my lane. also good for catching joker who like vandalism. u can send civil sue immediately, no need to trouble police with anything.
2. digital voice recorder and handphone voice recorder (good for witness)
3. digital BENQ camera and disposal camera + handphone camera
4. several pen, paper and the accident reporting forms.
5. of course dont forget BMW first aid kit and some decent defensive capabilities against road rage.

 

[Greentea]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

pingman,
what realtime surveillance camera do you have on ya ride, 3rd party or by BMW...

 

[pingman]

Re: Advice need on action agst other party over accident[not major]

i use after market surveillance near-real-time camera, i set to 3 frame per second. it use NVRAM to store black-white picture.

i m hoping to upgrade it to i-drive video interface with real-time 30fps processing capability. then can add in front/back camera + night vision system also.

but so far cant find any workshop who dare to do it in singapore.