New Honda Civic Type R (JA) ~ On sale this Friday ~

[powersteer]

Originally Posted by caySman

In short, the BMW engineer might have been very very wrong. And Honda too.

the philosophy of Honda and BMW is actually very very different. is not right to lump their school of thoughs together in the same context.

That BMW wanted to "smoke" that they can produce NA engines with lighter internals and eventually lighter engine? But Honda has nvr gone that way. Honda produces R cars (esp those 1st gens) that are Light (whole car!), small + nimble. Unlike 1.5 tonnes BMWs

Turbo and bigger capacity might give u that outright str8 line spd ... but juz look at the past winners of MME ... why is a 2L NA Civic so competitive? Why does the 2 integras not only won the 1st MME but also their 1st Super Taikyu race against R34 GTRs, Mit Evo .. etc? Its the package, not juz an engine or two

[centurion]

For BMW their new philosophy is to create LIGHT cars. This is part of the EFFICIENT DYNAMICS philosophy, which includes an entire set of technologies to pursue towards the obvious goal, including their new Hi Precision Injection technology.

That is seems that BMW has made pigs of cars, is not a consequence of their philosophy, but rather a case of `The Spirit is Willing, but the Flesh is Weak'

More information on efficient dynamics was in a 6 month ago issue of Autocar but here is a good enough approximation without requiring registration:

04 mot bmw philosophy

Originally Posted by powersteer

the philosophy of Honda and BMW is actually very very different. is not right to lump their school of thoughs together in the same context.

That BMW wanted to "smoke" that they can produce NA engines with lighter internals and eventually lighter engine? But Honda has nvr gone that way. Honda produces R cars (esp those 1st gens) that are Light (whole car!), small + nimble. Unlike 1.5 tonnes BMWs

Turbo and bigger capacity might give u that outright str8 line spd ... but juz look at the past winners of MME ... why is a 2L NA Civic so competitive? Why does the 2 integras not only won the 1st MME but also their 1st Super Taikyu race against R34 GTRs, Mit Evo .. etc? Its the package, not juz an engine or two

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by foxfrc5

Out of curiosity, what's your preference for your own daily driver? FWD, RWD or 4WD?

My daily driving isn't quick enough for me to notice any difference between drive systems. Even pushing different cars a little, I still don't feel any difference attributed to drive systems. I believe that until one gets to pushing hard, the feel comes more from the other areas of the car.

So for a street daily driver, I have no problem with whatever format gives the most cabin room, fuel efficiency, ease of maintenance, least noise... FWD. And counter-intuitively it is the safest (in terms of always reminding you of low traction limits, and pulling the car along without wanting to swap ends when drive traction is broken) to drive in icy conditions.

Originally Posted by powersteer

look at the past winners of MME ... why is a 2L NA Civic so competitive? Why does the 2 integras not only won the 1st MME but also their 1st Super Taikyu race against R34 GTRs, Mit Evo .. etc?

Because factory backing allows proper approaches to everything. Large database on all areas, especially with a history of similar platforms in competition.

[foxfrc5]

Originally Posted by Shaun

My daily driving isn't quick enough for me to notice any difference between drive systems. Even pushing different cars a little, I still don't feel any difference attributed to drive systems. I believe that until one gets to pushing hard, the feel comes more from the other areas of the car.

So for a street daily driver, I have no problem with whatever format gives the most cabin room, fuel efficiency, ease of maintenance, least noise... FWD. And counter-intuitively it is the safest (in terms of always reminding you of low traction limits, and pulling the car along without wanting to swap ends when drive traction is broken) to drive in icy conditions.

I had RWD BMWs and a Merc when I was living in the States and things always got "interesting" when it started to snow. I once spun my 325i 360 degrees after hitting a patch of black ice -- the car just stopped its spin smack in the middle of the road... no damage done but seconds before, I'd really thought it was all over...

I think there are some moments on my daily commute when I do sense RWD characteristics i.e. the way the car pushes through on long sweeping bends or when doing a 90 degree turn at a decent clip. But you're right that most of the time, it probably wouldn't make much difference.