New Honda Civic Type R (JA) ~ On sale this Friday ~

[MRacer77]

Des... you damn farnee lah you... hahahaha! 170 cm so short you also want... chey...

But now old already my drive comfortable car... if not sure backache one....

[MazzyMan]

Originally Posted by MRacer77

Des... you damn farnee lah you... hahahaha! 170 cm so short you also want... chey...

But now old already my drive comfortable car... if not sure backache one....

He likes tossing! You know...prata making style?

[rex7_vtec]

Originally Posted by BlackStealth

One russian model 170cm cup c for me please, barry?

Somehow civic just don't cut it for our age (30sss) anymore le...

Hello brudder, if I can bring in models you think I still want to buy the Civic? Kekekeke by the way only you considered as 30sss hor? Me still under the 20ssss category hahahahaha

[Deadkookaburra]

torque is still weak only 215NM

[Mag]

Originally Posted by Deadkookaburra

torque is still weak only 215NM

But that never stopped Honda fans..

[centurion]

Originally Posted by Deadkookaburra

torque is still weak only 215NM

BMW's chief engineer (engines) once said: (paraphrased)

'I do not understand what Mercedes is doing. With supercharging and forced induction, you increase torque. For most cars, torque is the enemy. With increased torque, we have to strengthen the driveshaft, the crankshaft, the pistons, transmission, everything. With strength comes weight. With weight comes slower braking, less agility and less driveability, and less fuel economy.

With BMW, our strategy is for high engine speed, and we save weight on the entire drivetrain, to achieve better fuel economy and to create a better driving machine.'

At the end of the day, now BMW is changing its tune. And to the better, in my opinion. A good balance is good, though it will make the car heavier and heavier, as we all witness.

[xiaoshun]

Originally Posted by Mockngbrd

MUGEN VERSION!!!!!!_!!(!)!!

WOOOOOTttt!!!! i wan i wan i wan!!!!!! VteC POWER!!!

so getting one for urself??


Motoring.asia1.com: Civic Type R

Honda Civic Type-R Latest Prices (Singapore) - sgCarMart

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by caySman

BMW's chief engineer (engines) once said: (paraphrased)

'I do not understand what Mercedes is doing. With supercharging and forced induction, you increase torque. For most cars, torque is the enemy. With increased torque, we have to strengthen the driveshaft, the crankshaft, the pistons, transmission, everything. With strength comes weight. With weight comes slower braking, less agility and less driveability, and less fuel economy.

With BMW, our strategy is for high engine speed, and we save weight on the entire drivetrain, to achieve better fuel economy and to create a better driving machine.'

At the end of the day, now BMW is changing its tune. And to the better, in my opinion. A good balance is good, though it will make the car heavier and heavier, as we all witness.

Marketing again! If you have low torque whether from lack of displacement or lack of forced induction, then the only way you'll accelerate quick is to have a light car, a high power car, or a combination of both. Now to keep torque low, you can't resort to large engines, so you take your small engine and turn it high. Doing this reduces reliability exponentially (and a larger exponent than 2, closer to 3 or 4!). Now your engine suffers, and then to get wheel torque you gear down. Now everything downstream of the gearbox sufffers the same amount, acceleration held constant.

High engine speeds create friction (again exponentially to engine speed), even at similar strokes, and reduce reliability. If reliability is held constant, then cost explodes. Small high speed engines (relative to large low speed NA engines) have inherently poor efficiency (poor fuel economy) because of poor surface area to volume ratios, and the friction.

The other thing is that forced induction, especially turbos do not at all have to increase peak torque. They can take an existing peak torque and fill out the rest of the curve to match, to the upper portion of the engine speed range. This way torque is not increased, but power is - greatly.

He is describing the worst of the worst torque turd 80s or 70s type pure racing turbo systems.

Re: weight, you have to separate the vehicle from the engine. Weight keeps piling on even in lines that remain NA. It mostly comes from all the comforts and gadgets that the mfgs continue stuffing into cars. Engine system to engine system, you also have to consider the outputs of both engines and how stressed each unit actually is (how much of its total power potential at a given life, the engine puts out in current state)


If you can dig up the actual quote I would love to see it because these sort of words coming from a lead engineer is really shocking. Either he's a really old engineer (outdated education, out of touch with technology, set in certain ways) , or a marketing sellout. I suspect the latter. Not that old engineers are all this way. Most of them area really good annd in fact the gods are almost all old....some as old as nitrogen.

[centurion]

Originally Posted by Shaun

If you can dig up the actual quote I would love to see it because these sort of words coming from a lead engineer is really shocking. Either he's a really old engineer (outdated education, out of touch with technology, set in certain ways) , or a marketing sellout. I suspect the latter. Not that old engineers are all this way. Most of them area really good annd in fact the gods are almost all old....some as old as nitrogen.

I read it in a magazine, when BMW was asked for a response to the C32AMG and Mercedes' beginning of usage of forced induction in their AMG cars. About 5-7 years ago.

I tried to find it but gave up. I couldn't come up with the limiters for google. I search often, and one day, i might find it and post.

I remembered this above all because it was astounding to me at that time. BS as you might say, it gave me another perspective to automotive philosophy, and though BMW does not do what the engineer says, HONDA does exactly what he says. So witness the Honda Civic Type R. The most advanced technology in engine manufacturing, the lightest car among all the hot hatches, and against an entire range of competition, all turbocharged, in Evo this month, it lost the battle to everyone.

In short, the BMW engineer might have been very very wrong. And Honda too.

[Mockngbrd]

JDM CTR video