M54B30 conversion to N54B30?

[Breyton]

Just wondering how difficult it is to do a conversion.

As in - we know the new twin-turbo N54B30 (from the 335i) is based on the old M54B30 (pre-E90 3.0 engines with 231bhp)... but how different is the engine besides the two LP turbos? ECU mapping is different I guess, but what else? Do they share a great number of similarities or do they only share the same block and everything else is different? Perhaps some of the shifus here can enlighten....

If they are largely similar, we should be seeing conversion kits being offered soon...

[Shaun]

I don't think a proper conversion will be easy or cheap.

Published numbers for bore and stroke look the same, but you still have to confirm head bolt pattern. They may have changed patterns and increased bolt/stud number in expectation of higher cylinder pressures. You need the head mainly to carry over direct injection which is significantly different. Valves on the 335i head are likely different material, perhaps sodium filled, and guide clearance is likely larger in anticipation of higher temps. Block may use same casting, but liner material may be different to cope better with new conditions too.

Compression ratio is the same, but they likely arrive at it by a different combination of piston dish/dome volumes and chamber volumes since proper direct injection is designed to work with a specific piston crown design, very different from port injection. This is in addition to likely different material and forming processes for the pistons and rods.

You could run some swaps and get close, but output and longevity won't equal a 335i unless you confirm all these things are exactly the same, and the person you get to put it all together is equipped right and knows what he's doing. I believe a complete engine swap is a better option.

Also have to route or insulate stuff in your engine bay after the conversion and make sure everything is protected from heat sources.

[Breyton]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I don't think a proper conversion will be easy or cheap.

....and the person you get to put it all together is equipped right and knows what he's doing. I believe a complete engine swap is a better option....

Thanks for the input Shaun - very enlightening.

I guess only the big boys like Schnitzer, Hamaan, Breyton, etc would have the resources to study the conversion and perhaps come up with a kit. But I think they are more likely to improve on their own supercharger setups than spend time mulling this one!

Wait and see I guess.

[Physicist]

Breyton,

You're not thinking of dropping one into your E85 are you?

[Breyton]

Originally Posted by Brandons

Breyton,

You're not thinking of dropping one into your E85 are you?

Nay.... I've done nary a mod to my car.... and this would be too much for a beginner like me. I'm just wondering out loud, that's all... If I were to consider something like that, I'd probably go for one of the tried-and-test supercharger setups by one of the big boys. :P

[Physicist]

You're lucky cos you're using the old M54 engine where the SC kits are well developed.

I can't even imagine what it'll be like for mine. But then I heard there's a twin screw SC kit being developed at the moment.

[Breyton]

Originally Posted by Brandons

You're lucky cos you're using the old M54 engine where the SC kits are well developed.

I can't even imagine what it'll be like for mine. But then I heard there's a twin screw SC kit being developed at the moment.

Give the Schnitzers and the Hammans some time, they'll be out with their SC (or maybe TC?) kits for the new 3.0 soon enough. These guys are serious about reliability and there's no substitute to the long and tedious testing processes they put their conversions through. I remember a barking-mad E46 330i that Breyton gave 530+ bhp... but they didn't release it for production as they deemed it unsuitable for long term use.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Breyton

Thanks for the input Shaun - very enlightening.

I guess only the big boys like Schnitzer, Hamaan, Breyton, etc would have the resources to study the conversion and perhaps come up with a kit. But I think they are more likely to improve on their own supercharger setups than spend time mulling this one!

Wait and see I guess.

Actually, companies much smaller than the big names you list will be able to assess and come up with proper conversions. These companies are the type that Schnitzer, Hamaan, Breyton, outsource their engine component design, manufacture, and overall engine development to already. Of the three only one has an engine development history (other two are mainly wheels, kits, software) and that was decades ago. These days things are a lot more specialized.

With both sets of NA and TC blocks and heads for reference and testing, an automotive machine company with a couple of digital mills and lathes, a hone, sonic checker, some measuring instruments (dial bore gauge, outsourced PAT incometer scan, metal sample tests), putting 3 dedicated machinists on the job can have a complete race quality conversion kit specified and tested in 3 weeks of their time. This is a two million USD company or smaller.

Stepping up to an autmotive machine shop with a dedicated CAD guy, a co-ordinate measurement machine, and couple of 5 axis CNC mills and lathes, it'll take 3 guys, 2 weeks. This is a ~3 million USD company.

Worldwide there are at least 30 companies that would be capable of doing this, either as something they wanted to get in on, or as a client program. Client would pay only 70-100K USD for the project, including engine dyno and road testing validation and it is all said and done. excluding component costs - minimum component quality specified by consultant.

The 3 and 2 week estimates do not include liner, piston, rod, stud, turbo, manifold , etc. manufacturer lead times. In the UK motorsports valley lead times are as low as days to week or two. In the US where the communities are spread out over Mooresville, Indianapolis, Detroit, lead times are closer to a month.

Still when you consider how much the big names charge for conversions and kits, the time and money cost to them is nothing.

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Brandons

You're lucky cos you're using the old M54 engine where the SC kits are well developed.

I can't even imagine what it'll be like for mine. But then I heard there's a twin screw SC kit being developed at the moment.

Yes unless I had a spare commuter car and lots of extra money and time, only then would I try and run a pioneer effort swap in SG. Simpler and proven SC systems are much more practical.

The charger development you speak of is a likely result of Eaton's soon release of a 160 degree twist roots blower (TVS) that has pressure ratios and efficiencies approaching centrifugal and lysholm levels. If I had a street car with a heavy street focus, that is the exact type of charger I would pick (TVS or Lysholm) because the low end is just real stout.

[louis]

Shaun,

The TVS sounds interesting but i believe the twin screw Brandons referred to is a 1.6L lysholm unit.